scouts-l Mail Archive for May of 2000: Re: discussion of the 3 G's
MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle (blkeagle@USSCOUTS.ORG
Thu May 06 1993 - 18:49:42 CDT
Steve Berry wrote:
>With respect to the author of the above (he is not the only one) I am
>getting pretty tired of people taking it upon themselves to say what may be
>discussed, what may not be discussed, or when enough discussion has been
>held on a specific topic. If there is a problem with this discussion I am
>sure that the list owner or one of his appointed moderators will step in and
While I will NOT speak directly for Jon Eidson, here's a snippet from a
previous message HE wrote concerning the topic (excuse the tone; he was
EXTREMELY ANGRY during the time he posted this...)
>First off, how the SCOUTS-L list is run and managed is NOT, I repeat
>NOT open for discussion ... period! This is the way I've been running
>it for almost 10 years and it will not change. If you have a problem
>with this then take your attituded and subscription off the list.
>Kyna and Carol have graciously volunteered their time to help me in
>managing parts of the list but I AM responsible for what goes on.
>The guidelines are designed to keep the list running smoothly and
>keep the "signal to noise" ratio to a low level ... as well as to
>keep the atmosphere of the list positive and supportive to the
>fellow members. PLEASE ... try and keep that in mind when posting.
>Are the 3G's taboo here? Thats a No/Yes answer. These issues seem
>to ALWAYS get emotional and the attitude of the postings deteriate
>as well as all the arguments have been heard before. Subject matters
>are not restricted, but I prefer that the 3Gs be kept to only
>newsworthy postings and not to discuss the pros/cons.
>Yours in Scouting,
>Jon Eidson, Listowner Scouts-L
(and yes, Jon, I AM working on the revision to our WELCOME letter to be more
inclusive of this topic!!)
I was the principle author of the WELCOME letter (as I will be for the
revision to the letter...it WILL be shorter, I *promise*!!), and at the time
I wrote it, circulated it around to several Scouters for their comments and
input, and finally sent it to Jon with a listing of who saw it.... the
"three Gs" had rarely come up as a topic with the exeception, as Jon wrote
above, of those items which appeared in newspapers or magazines which lend
themselves to saying "Hey! I saw this in the Post. Take a look at it!" with
the appropriate pointers to the item.
As both Jon and I have wrote in the past, while it may feel that we're
trying to "tell people what we can and cannot talk about here", all we're
trying our best to do is to maintain a sense of family and civil discourse
while talking about youth programs and youth program issues. Yes, all three
of those issues are youth program issues. Yes, they impact more than the Boy
Scouts of America directly and truth be told, they impact American life period.
But there are better forums to carry out this discussion through. I would
agree with you and a few others if Scouts-L was the ONLY youth programs
forum out there.
But we're not no longer. There are forums on the USENET Newsgroups, on
America Online (tm), on egroups (tm) and several other places. If you want
to discuss those issues with *me*, I can be found also on the USENET
Newsgroup rec.scouting.issues...I read it every other day, and try to post
that often as well.
I and those others there will discuss any or all of those issues with you
until the cows literally come home! There are several other Scouters here on
Scouts-L whom are also found on rec.scouting.issues.
However, as Jon wrote above, HE is the sole owner of THIS LIST; therefore,
HE makes the rules which EVERYONE (me included!) MUST FOLLOW in order to
keep this list going and growing and expanding as it's done. If I was the
listowner, I would have the same rules. They are simple, breeds politeness
and at least an appreciation for others, and is more in line with those
principles belonging to those youth organizations we serve as leaders or
coordinators or administrators of.
>As a Parent and Scouter I try to teach my charges that in our country YOU
>can make a difference. The issue in the courts now is something that we all
>have the power to effect the eventual outcome on. Maybe we can't make the
>outcome exactly what we wish but we DO have the power to help arrive at what
>ever the conclusion may be. This discussion DOES have a real answer it's
>just that the answer may be different for each of us.
Well, technically, Steve, we don't have ANY power to help the nine Justices
to arrive at their Constitutionally-mandated roles by...no more power than
any other citizen. As far as the other two "Gs" are concerned, whatever is
said here makes NO IMPACT AT ALL with the BSA; because when the "rubber
meets the road", it is YOUR COUNCIL'S LEADERSHIP that makes the difference
through their voting at the National Meeting when these issues come up.
Want to influnce the conclusion of those issues? Write to YOUR Council
President and YOUR Council Commissioner and tell THEM how you feel about
those issues and how you would like for them to vote at the National
Meeting. Additionally, depending on the size of your Council, you may have
one, two or four other volunteers who serve as National Council
Represenatives. Write to THEM too and tell them how you feel about those
issues and why. Posting here to Scouts-L won't get you that exposure with
them (unless they too are members here at Scouts-L, and you would be better
served posting to them privately).
>As far as homosexuality is concerned what makes it immoral? Christianity
>says that it is, but being a Christian is NOT a requirement for joining the
>scouts last time I looked!
American society makes homosexuality immoral, and that's how the BSA sees
it, Steve. It has very little to do with faith, or a particular faith. The
BSA asserts that in order to be "the best kind of citizen", one must be a
person who subscribes to the parts of the Scout Oath and Law. While "old
timers" will cringe when I add "of which the part dealing with "morally
straight" has nothing to do with sexuality when it was originally written",
THAT is how the BSA is applying it TODAY.
And the BSA, like Jon with Scouts-L, owns the program, and therefore can
make the rules as they see to make them. We can complain, we can jump up
and down. But until the BSA CHANGES the program (or when our Supreme Court
demands that the BSA changes the program) to become "more inclusive", that's
the way it is.
We can complain, we can yell at our monitors and pound our keyboards, Steve.
But until Jon Eidson decides to allow such discussions here on this list (or
when we get a new list owner who wants to send our list into a different
direction), that's the way it is.
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
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