scouts-l Mail Archive for March of 2000: Re: Baden Powell / Service hours
CHUCK BRAMLET (chuckb@AZTEC.ASU.EDU
Tue Mar 14 2000 - 00:52:24 CST
Subject: Re: Baden Powell
Mark Arend writes...
>Why not suggest to her that her son go to the Library, ask the
>librarian for a little instruction, and do his own research? There
>are all sorts of print & on-line resources out there.
I am involved with another group on-line, and the anti-homework
sentiment is so strong there that they are extremely rude and have a
bogus homework page to whom they regularly refer questions...
Including one from a Den Leader who wanted suggestions on what kind
of game to run. This type of comment sets me off.
>I've worked in a public library for almost 20 years now, and the
>thing that bugs me most is parents doing work for their high school
>(or even college) aged children.
How would you handle the HS aged child who came home one day with 4
hours of homework in 4 different classes - all due the next day?
Add to this that the child is ADD and the school refused to help.
You've heard my song and dance on this before - but how do you _dare_
to presume to know the situation? How do you know that the child
isn't doing exactly what you suggest, while mom is _using_her_
_resources_ to get some additional help, just in case?
>This is bad for two reasons. First of all the kid's not learning--or
>at least he's learning the wrong thing.
In our case, the child learned that the teachers didn't care about
>Doing the research is part of what the teacher wants the kid to
>learn. Mom is short-circuiting this and what the kid is really
>learning is that Mom is there to bail him out.
Or that the teacher is unreasonable.
>But he needs to learn that there are consequences for not doing
>assigned work. Secondly, the parent rarely knows what the
>assignment really is. When I'm doing a reference interview I find
>out what grade the kid is in, how long the assignment is, is it oral
>or written, when is it due, what class is it for, and any other
>requirements the teacher has.
Whenever we tried to find this out, all we got was the blank "I don't
know". To _any_ of those questions. Writing the assignment down?
Forget it. consequences were the normal part of school - fails.
We do the best we can.
(someone writing a one-paragraph essay does not need the same
information as someone writing a 10-page report). With the exception
of the first one the parents usually can't tell me.
>Sorry to rant on like this, but you've touched a nerve here. I
>understand that the boy is probably very busy (as we all are) and
>maybe even over-extended, but doing his school work for him does not
Neither does the teacher help by overloading the kids with homework.
Out here, the "SAGE" or accelerated students have even more. The
State Legislature and State Superintendent of Schools, in their
wisdom, have decided that better prepared graduates can be created by
doubling the homework and adding to the class requirements. Never
mind that half the teachers can't teach.
Sorry, Mark - this is one of _my_ hot buttons. I've lived thru it
twice - once myself and once with each of the kids. I swore that I
would not allow the school system to do to my childre what it had
done to me, and when push came to shove, I couldn't do a ******
thing about it. Everybody knows how to do it better, and no one
wants to help solve the _real_ problem. But denying the child help
because he "should do it himself" is part of the problem, not the
solution. At least from where I sit.
> don't know how old he is, but if he's doing this sort of
>assignment he's probably old enough to start learning about
>budgeting his time and making choices.
Choices like which class to fail and which to pass? And what to drop
if he's overextended? Like religious education or Scouting?
Subject: Service hours
David Delman writes...
>Great post YET you can either read my post above, or better yet the
>BoyScout Reqmts Y2K Booklet, the District Advancement Booklet, or
>the SM HandBk to MAYBE slightly adjust your thinking and doing on
>Snipped from the BS Reqmts
>"meaningful service not normally expected of a scout as part of his
>"school, religious, or community activities"
>SO if you want to follow BSA's guidelines, which you should, you
>would not normally accept that community item you currently feel is
IIRC, most of these new school service requirements are from within
the last 2 years. Most of the Scouting literature was already
The "normally expected" service for school in some areas has been
said to run as high as 50 hours a year. Maybe 6 more hours isn't
much, but then again, maybe it is. But with respect to the school
reqs, _required_ service isn't service any more.
Chuck Bramlet -- I "used to be" an Antelope! WEM-10-95 Member DNRC
ASM Troop 323, Firebird District, Grand Canyon Council, Phoenix, Az.
"When we lose the right to be different, we lose the privilege to
be free." -- Charles Evans Hughes
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