Scouts-L Mail Archive for June of 1999: Re: Communication between adults and boys
Re: Communication between adults and boys
John A. Royar, Sr.
Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:26:23 -0500
I have to agree with Ben. It may help to have the SM talk with the SPL.
Have him remind the patrol leaders that they need to be a little more
organized. They can't wait till the last minute for the patrol members to
say they are going on a camp out. Let him know that a tour permit is
required. If your TRANSPORTATION person is the one that files it, let him
know they need certain information, like who is going and who is driving!
Tell the SPL this permit takes time to coordinate and get approved (most
councils want it two weeks before the event).
If y'all use the patrol method, the PL need this information to plan for
what patrol equipment is needed, plan menus and buy food. I hope your troop
leaves the buying of the food up to the boys!!! If you use the method of
planing, pricing, collection of money and then food purchase, you need a
good head count at least two weeks out. Only on special invitation did the
adults eat with a patrol. Your adults can either eat as an adult patrol or
I have always used the rule that permission slips are due the meeting
before the campout. I also had the menus approved two weeks prior. The
patrols would give the head count on the menus with list attending. We
would then used this number for the tour permit. Even two weeks out is
cutting it close in some councils for the approval!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scouts-L Youth Group List [mailto:Scouts-L@LISTSERV.TCU.EDU]On
> Behalf Of Ben Moss
> Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 6:27 PM
> To: SCOUTS-L@LISTSERV.TCU.EDU
> Subject: Re: Communication between adults and boys
> A couple of weeks ago I worked on staff at a junior leader training
> conference. As a guide, I had to know when to step in and help a bit, or
> to show the participants in the patrol how to do something. The decision
> of stepping in is a tough one.
> I finally figured out that it was best to step in when either
> it's a safety
> issue or when they've used all of their resources they had to solve a
> problem. Then I usually went to the Patrol Leader first.
> This can be applied to a boy-run troop easily. The patrols at
> the JLT camp
> were boy-run. The adult "leaders" (who most of the time can sit back and
> watch; "guides" would maybe be more appropriate?) should step in when
> there's a safety issue or when the patrols can't do it by themselves.
> There's nothing wrong with offering advice, but it's probably best to give
> advice to the SPL or patrol leaders, and not the whole troop.
> I hope that kind of answers your question (or helps you answer it).
> Please send any replies to firstname.lastname@example.org.
> Yours in Scouting,
> -Ben Moss
> At 10:05 AM 6/22/99 -0700, anitah@SLIP.NET wrote:
> >I'm working with all those Troop Manuals various people have sent me,
> >trying to distill just what it is that can help our troop. I realized
> >our problem isn't just the lack of clear rules (although that is a big
> >issue), but on a deeper level concerns the question of the definition of
> >"boy-led", coupled with unclear understanding of the chain of command.
> >Here's just one example from last night's meeting:
> >We have an outing this Friday (and the meeting was Monday). Permission
> >slips were supposed to be turned in Monday night, but several boys had
> >not brought theirs. Our troop scribe announced that the remaining boys
> >needed to mail their slips to the patrol leaders, who would log them and
> >in turn mail them to the scribe. Now obviously there's not enough time
> >for that (not to mention how difficult it makes the Transportation
> >Coordinator's job, and how much confusion could result if boys showed up
> >but their slips hadn't arrived), but no adult spoke up, not even the
> >TransCoord. After the meeting, the TransCoord spoke to the SM about the
> >problem but he said nothing. So now our TransCoord will be chasing
> >around all week up till the last minute, trying to get a solid head
> >count and arrange for drivers. And we might even get boys showing up
> >Friday, permission slips in hand! Who will drive them?
> >Now here's where the problem of philosophy comes in. Our CC has drummed
> >it into everyone's heads that "we don't tell anyone how to do their job"
> >and that "the boys are supposed to think for themselves". If the Transp
> >Chair had spoken directly to the Scribe, our CC would have jumped down
> >her throat, both for telling him what to do, and for speaking directly
> >to him instead of going through channels. And the TransCoord would have
> >gotten it double for bringing up the matter during announcements, in
> >front of the other boys.
> >So where do we draw the line? I don't think it's reasonable to expect
> >young boys (and our troop is mostly comprised of 11-14 yos) to figure
> >this stuff out on their own. Sure, they need to practice leadership and
> >make mistakes, but I thought the intent was to provide them leadership
> >opportunities in a safe environment, where the really critical stuff
> >(matters of health, safety, finances and legality) would be overseen and
> >safeguarded by adults. The permission slip issue is one of legality and
> >So what's the protocol here? Who would make the Permission Slip
> >Deadline rule? The boys, the TransCoord, or the Committee? Once made,
> >is it OK for anyone who knows the rule to speak out immediately when
> >they hear it being ignored, or is there certain timing and a chain of
> >command? Speak to the SPL or the SM and let him handle it?? And what
> >if he doesn't? I gather that our TransCoord has been frustrated for
> >months now over this issue.
> >And a last thought: everything in our troop runs this way. Is it clear
> >now why I want to draft a Procedures Manual? :-)
> >Anita H. <email@example.com>
> // Ben Moss, KI0PX //
> // firstname.lastname@example.org //
> // www.rollanet.org/~benm/ //