Re: Still about camp
(no name) ((no email))
Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:01:55 +0000
Tom Petrik <EC92@AOL.COM> had a followup to his question about
removal of Scouters and the process thereof:
>Thanks to all who have responded. However:
>1. The man isn't from my unit.
Thank Goodness he isn't; otherwise, your unit would be in for some
turbelent times, Tom.
>2. Even if he were, WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO ALL OF SCOUTING IF ONLY
>THE CO REMOVES THE LEADER?
It sends a signal -- a clear signal -- to him, to other Scouters,
and to Scouts -- that this person is not welcome as a registered
member of the BSA. It also places him on notice that he may not
gain registration in any other unit within that Council, either.
May not, because each unit can determine if the person is worth
registering or not. The Chartered Organization head makes that
determination now, thanks to recent guidance that we just talked
about on this list. If the Chartered Organizational head deems
that this person is okay, then he could be given a second chance.
Unlikely, but a possibility.
>3. I notified the Program Director at camp (a DE), the Camp
>Director, the unit's DE arrived on Friday to join in the fun, and
>faxed the details to the SE (with copies to all of the above) as
>soon as my brain was partly unfried from a week at camp with 14
>boys PLUS the 5 "guests" and only two real adult leaders.
I sure hoped that you placed a PERSONAL and CONFIDENTIAL header on
your fax to the SE. Those two words get their attention faster
than "your house is on fire" or "I'm naked from the waist down"
Seriously, Tom...follow up your faxes with personal phone calls to
the Scout Executive. Don't leave it to his secretary to screen his
faxes and delay this....if this is a case whereby we're talking
removal, the Council Scout Executive needs to know NOW what went on
and he needs to hear it from YOU, not the District Executive with
second-hand knowledge (with the possibility of not getting the
>I know how to START the process, what happens from here, how
>long does it take, and what do I have to look forward to?
What happens from here:
First, you may be asked to come to the Council office and repeat
your assertions to the Council Scout Executive in person. He or
she may have another senior professional in the office with you
while the Scout Executive collects information on a data sheet
about the Scouter. Provide as much factual information as you can
about the individual, to include family and personal information if
you know it. If you don't, don't sweat it....it becomes the SE's
job to get this information.
Next, the Scout Executive will conduct an investigation using as a
template instructions found in the BSA's "Maintaining Standards of
Membership" booklet. It's a restricted issued item that only Scout
Executives and senior professional members at the Council and
Regional levels have copies of. Post me privately if you want to
know more about this item, Tom.
The Scout Executive will recommend one of four courses of action
that he and only he can do. He can find to do nothing at all. He
can leave it to the unit's chartering partner organization to do
something, which may mean that the Chartering partner organization
can remove him if they deem so. He can find to remove this person
from membership in the Council for a temporary basis. He can find
to remove this person from membership permanently and will further
recommend that this person be placed on the BSA's "blacklist" (too
harsh a name: it's called the "ineligible membership roster", also
called Council #900, because that's the way the roster is kept).
Once placed on this roster, unless their appeals are approved
either at the Regional or National level, they remain on the
listing and are barred electronically from further registrations.
It's not a foolproof system, but it works and works effectively
along with the "ineligble membership worksheet" which the Scout
Exec fills out and returns to the National Director of Membership.
This worksheet has information about a person's name, address,
social security number (I know, it's illegal...don't shoot the
messager, okay??), marital status, number of children, hair, eye,
and skin color, and last known addresses among other datapoints!
This is crossreferenced by a BSA registration number on
This, Tom, has the effect of keeping this person from doing as you
stated, walking over to a new Council, registering and becoming a
Scouter again...IF he's removed from membership.
How Long Does it Take?
Anywhere from a month to several months, depending on the scope of
the investigation, the depth that the Scout Executive wishes to go
into and his recommendations. Remember that ONLY the Council Scout
Executive can make decisions on removal unless he has delegated it
to a senior assistant. Very few SEs do this.
During this period, because the Scout Executive is (or should be)
following the "Maintaining Standards" publication, don't expect him
to be calling you or informing you of his progress. He's not
supposed to. Nor is he supposed to be talking with the primary
suspect except as part of the investigatory process.
Some Scouters get upset because of this process...but it's there to
protect the program, the Scouter involved and the local Council in
the case that the allegations are unfounded (not to say that it's
not in your case, but in others, you can see how this could easily
blow up in a local Council's face if the allegations aren't
founded!) Also, by not commenting about it, Councils don't find
themselves being countermanned by the Region upon appeal. In the
earlier days, some Councils didn't "catch this clue" and openly
talked about people they are "throwing out" and why.
What Do You Have to Look Forward To:
Not a whole lot. You've done your part, and now it's up to the
Council Scout Executive to do his or her part.
You will NOT be notified, in writing or any other way, of the
results of the investigation. Plain and simple. Nor will you get
copies of any of the materials, including your interview. Now,
comes the reality part of this process.
The person, if removed, may turn around and attempt to include you
in a civil suit to regain his registration. It could be nasty,
especially if the person knows you and knows that you have informed
the Council Scout Executive of his actions. Note that I stated
civil suit; the suit will more than likely be against the BSA, the
local Council and the chartered partner organization to which the
individual belonged. But he's free to pull in anyone else
involved, which means you. I'm NOT a lawyer (don't even play one
on TV!), but I can tell you that the BSA's risk management team
will NOT defend you or any other volunteer...they belong to
National and are only loaned out to the local Council for truly
large scale cases.
In most cases, the person gets the letter from the Council and
moves onward with his or her life. There are those that appeal or
works within the system to return to the program; the vast majority
however, leaves and forgets about their service.
Hope this additional information has helped you out, Tom. Sorry
for the problems at camp....
(c) 1998 Mike Walton ("no such thing as strong coffee,...") (502) 827-9201
(settummanque, the blackeagle) http://dynasty.net/users/blkeagle
241 Fairview Dr., Henderson, KY 42420-4339 firstname.lastname@example.org
privately at email@example.com or firstname.lastname@example.org
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