Re: Questions from my Troop&Patrol
(no name) ((no email))
Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:08:30 +0000
Sorry about the incomplete earlier posting, Bruce and gang...I'm
still dealing with new software and the "send" key also has a
keyboard combination as well...
Instead of reposting the entire message again, I'll start out where
>In this case, what we should have seen is a couple of
>answers saying "you don't wear them at the same time" (allowing
>for differing propagation rates) and that would have been the end
>of it. Instead, what we get from several people, including at
>least one whose opinion is well respected on this list, is
That's what I stated at the start of my response to Anthony:
"First off, you would only wear the two sashes during formal
occasions, and there's not many of them that you would wear BOTH
sashes to. I can only think of perhaps one or two events that you
would wear both to."
And then, I proceeded to give my explaination that IF both are to be
worn, here's how I would do it...
....and even repeated the fact that the OA sash is ONLY worn during
>And then, when presented with the correct information, instead of
>saying a simple "thank you, I stand corrected" we get a long
>justification of why the wrong information really isn't wrong.
>(Sorry Mike, but your last post on this subject in reply to Branden
>was totally off the mark.)
I felt that I provided the appropriate information, even if it
wasn't "official information". I should have been clearer in the
fact that it wasn't "official"; we've been over this trail before
and I've agreed that if it comes with a reference, we should take it
as ADVICE and NOT OFFICIAL INFORMATION.
>That is why we are currently having a discussion, not so much
>about the answer to the specific uniforming question, but about
>what kind of information we should be supplying.
And I agree wholeheartely that both OFFICIAL INFORMATION and the
background as well as alternatives to this information should be
given...it gives the Scout or Scouter more of a chance to "see
what's going to fly" in his or her community and Council and more
For instance, going back to the Webmaster patch discussion. If I
simply replied "the patch isn't official and you can't wear it on
your uniform as a position patch", that would not have solved the
question: where do I get the patch and how do I wear it. The patch
can be worn as a temporary patch on the right pocket and if the
Council's Scout Executive approves it, it can be worn as a position
patch on the left shoulder, position three.
Again, I agree with you and Branden and Jim that both sashes SHOULD
NOT BE WORN TOGETHER. I also disagree with Branden respectfully
that there *are occasions* in which the wearing of both sashes, as
what happens frequently with other parts of the BSA's uniforming
guidelines, is worn in either ignorance or outright definance of the
established policy and guideline. We're going to have such things
happen because the BSA isn't just a bunch of people blindly going
about following policies....it's people, and people tend to develop
new ways of doing things based on that old adage "rules are made to
This is how we ended up with activity badges on the backside of our
merit badge sashes, and how we ended up with neckerchiefs worn under
the collar of uniform shirts. This is also how we ended up with a
wide variety of "changes" and "modifications" to our uniforming and
I *try* to present all sides, not just the BSA side. Anthony and
his Scoutmaster and others that read what I have to say, as well as
what others here offer as ADVICE, can decide for themselves what
"will fly" and what won't.
I stand corrected on the wearing of both sashes together, even
though I've seen both worn by Scouts and Arrowmen.
(Branden, I've found two instances whereby Scouts attending the
Report to the Nation activities are wearing both OA and merit badge
sashes; I thought that one of them were either the National OA Chief
or Vice Chief. He's not. Just some Scout that I guess wanted to
wear both of them in the photo. Post me privately and I'll give you
the _Scouting_ issues and page numbers.)
Thanks, Bruce, for bringing some clarity to the topic and in
reminding ALL of us (me included) of the need to be clearer in
distinguishing POLICY from ADVICE!!
Such discussion on discussion BELONGS here, John; I may be on the
"downside" of those discussions, but believe me, it belongs here as
a valid and important part of what we all try to do every day here
Terry Howerton Sakima Group, Inc. SCOUTER Magazine Kansas City