Re: hazing problems
settummanque, or blackeagle (blkeagle@DYNASTY.NET)
Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:08:38 -0500
Charlie Folks wrote:
>OK!! OK!! Stop with the responses!!! shesh....is this what happens when
>you disagree with someone in person?
Remember, Charlie, that we're NOT disagreeing with YOU; those that do
disagree are only disagreeing with what YOU'VE SAID. There's *nothing*
personal here on Scouts-L; those that take a different view are taking the
viewpoint based on their experiences and what they know, and NOT because
they're trying to "put you down". That's NOT *my* intent
and while I can't speak for others here, I don't feel that it's *their* intent
> I understand the reasons you all
>stated for no hazing/practical joking...but are you saying that if I aska
>new scout to go get me a left handed smoke-shifter, or a raisin peeler, or
>a peach de-fuzzer that I can get kicked out of my troop?? Or that my troop
>can be shut down??
Legally, and moreso, technically, "you'd better believe it!". Realistically,
what'll happen is some Scouter like me will probably take you or your
Scoutmaster aside, explain to them the BSA's hazing policy (we would
probably start out by asking you or him "when was the last time that you've
attended the Youth Protection Program course?", where that's explained...it
hasn't changed since I've taken it last, which is in 1995!)
If it persists, Charlie, you'll find yourself or your Scoutmaster being
visited by the head of your chartered organization and your District's
senior professional. Depending on how "hard nosed" your District Executive
or District Director or even Scout Executive is, he or she could be carrying
with him or her a "Letter of Disbarrment", which is the BSA's "pink slip"
for membership. Once you (or your Scoutmaster, or any other Scout or
Scouter for that matter) has been given this IN PERSON, it takes effect and
you won't find yourself in the BSA anymore. You can appeal it, and since
there's no "court session" and since you cannot "appear in person" to appeal
it, there's not a good chance you'll be let back in as a registered member
of the BSA.
I *know* these things, Charlie, only because I've been on both sides of
this....I have participated in issuing such letters, as well as hearing from
Scouts and Scouters that have thought that their actions "aren't as bad" as
those that have been performing sexual acts, or have been proven in courts
of their crimes, or stuff like that. Again, the BSA is *very tired* (and
also extremely to their "breaking point") with regards to court suits and
cases....they would rather "cut their losses" now than to "endure" an
expensive out-of-court settlement (or "take their chances" and go to court
and hope that the other party runs out of money, patience and time before
the BSA does).
>I understand that there are several cases in which what is being done is
>extremely innapropriate, but some times (as with my troop) it's all in fun
>and if the scouts seems the slightest bit unhappy, we stop (and even
>though they might not say anything, their facial expressions make it >evident).
A couple of the adults here in this forum, Charlie, will tell you of their
youth days in which they were harrassed, injured or worse and their fact
that they "didn't tell anyone" about it because of some stupid "code" which
isn't a part of ANY of the BSA's core "values". The Scout Oath and Law are
the motivators in ANYTHING that the BSA does, and that's what you and I and
everyone else is "judged against". Just because a person doesn't complain
about it, doesn't mean that it's "okay".
>All of the scouts who recieved these 'warnings' thought of it as funny
>except for 2 of them (one being my brother) and their parents went crazy!
If you put a note like that on *my son's* cot, *I* would go ballistic!!
You wouldn't been able to know that my son was theatened with his life and
that of his sister when he was 8!! (That's NOT true, but who says it's not;
and how would you or anyone in your Troop know about what has
happened to those in your Troop BEFORE they became Scouts?? You know, we
don't run "background checks" on Scouts that join our Troops).
For all you know, some kid in your Troop *could have* been threatened with
their life, and that's how the person threatened them...by leaving a note on
their bed! Want to bring up "dangerous thoughts"?? Want to really scare a
Scout to a point whereby he or she can't even *talk*? That's a good way to
>Well, I guess I can expect more corrections about what I've said now...
No, not corrections, Charlie....just comments. Your unit can do whatever it
chooses to do, within the BSA's guidelines and rules that have been set up
for ALL units. The BSA is willing to bend like a green tree sap, but it's
NOT willing to break and cause damage to the rest of the tree and possibly
the rest of the forest!
Again, I'm NOT disagreeing with YOU, Charlie....I'm only disagreeing with
what you've said and at the same time letting those here that are not
familar with the BSA's policy on hazing to become familiar with it. Your
*pranks* may be funny to a Troop that all of the members have been around
for years and have grown up together.....but to those that have a person to
join your "happy band" and to endure some of the things you said your Troop
....would convince them that perhaps *your Troop* and maybe *Scouting
itself* is NOT where they want to place their kid. Kids today grow up in a
different enviornment than we all did years ago....there's more crime in our
families, more crime on our streets, more destructive things on our TVs and
in our movies. There's a lot of kids in "therapy" and a lot of kids taking
(c) 1997 Mike Walton ("no such thing as strong coffee,...") (502) 827-9201
(settummanque, the blackeagle) http://dynasty.net/users/blkeagle
241 Fairview Dr., Henderson, KY 42420-4339 firstname.lastname@example.org
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