Re: Explorers camping with Troops
settummanque, or blackeagle (blkeagle@DYNASTY.NET)
Fri, 22 Aug 1997 11:47:57 -0500
Phil made me scream at the screen!!
*THEY'RE NOT CALLED EXPLORER SCOUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
(okay. I'm over it now. The program is called "Exploring", Phil, and those
participants in the program are called "Explorers" with NO "Scout" attached.
What you did is like calling a Lincoln a "Lincoln Ford". Lincolns are part
of the Ford Motor Company, but a separate division.
Likewise, Exploring is a division of the BSA, but that's as far as it goes.)
I've modified your question *just slightly* to take care of the booboo!
It also makes the answers I've provided a little more "crystal clear".
>On our last three monthly campouts, an Explorer has joined our Troop in
>the outings. The Explorer's parents are both Assistant Scout Masters >with
our Troop, and has a little brother in the Troop. My question to this
>group; can an Explorer go on outings with a Boy Scout Troop and be >covered
under BSA's insurance. Oh, by the way, the Explorer is a 14 year >old female.
Not as a registered Explorer. She can go as the "child of the parents of
the unit", however. Either way, she would not be covered under the BSA's
liability insurance because she is not a registered member of that unit.
The BSA's Liability insurance policies and those of your local Council WOULD
cover her, however, if she attended an Exploring outdoor event or a event
with her Explorer Post or Ship. It would also cover her if, for say, was a
staffer at Philmont or at the Jamboree.
Since she cannot be registered as a youth member of the Troop, she would not
be covered under the BSA's insurance policies unless she attends that event
with her Explorer Post or Ship and they just happen to be camping next door
to the Troop.
>After returning from our last campout at Quartz Mountain State Park, near
>Altus, OK, several parents became concerned that our Troop was >allowing a
girl to go camping with their sons. One parent when so far as >to call the
Council office to voice a complaint, and to ask what BSA >policy was
concerning this issue. Our DE called me on Monday >afternoon, and asked me
what had happened. The DE said that he had >called National, and was told
that under no circumstances, should a girl >go camping with the Troop.
And he's right to a point. Females are excluded from camping as part of the
Troop program, because young females are not allowed to become Boy Scouts.
However, if your unit was a Varsity Team, females can go camping as long as
they have suitable adult supervision and with the consent of their families,
of course. Also, there must be separate camping areas for the young adults,
males and females, as it is (or should be) with male and female adult
leadership and "straphangers" (those parents and others attending the
encampment with the unit).
>The DE did not give reference to any official policy, just verbal _advice_.
>I guess that is my biggest question I pose to the group, what is _official
>BSA policy_ concerning this matter.
Official BSA policy is the following, Phil:
*Female youth cannot camp with Boy Scout Troops, because females cannot
become Boy Scouts.
*Female Varsity "guests" (the guest of a member of a Varsity Team member)
can campout, but only in separate areas and under separate adult leadership
and supervision during the entire event or activity from the Varsity Team
members and their adult leadership.
*Female Explorer members cannot camp with Boy Scout Troops but may camp with
other members of their Post or Ship in separate areas and under separate
adult leadership and supervision during the entire event or activity.
*Female "tagalongs" (those youth whom are NOT BSA members as well as those
whom are Explorers) may camp with their family as long as the family is
camping in an area separate from the unit's area, and that the family takes
full and complete responsibility for the conduct and behavior of the female
youth members during the entire event or activity.
The BSA's liability insurance and local Council insurance policies will NOT
cover any violations of those stated BSA policies.
These are all covered in the BSA's Safe Guide to Scouting, Phil as well as
covered in the Youth Protection Guidelines. I've condensed a lot of the
officialese into those three paragraphs above.
>After returning from the campout, of which I was the leader in charge, I
>thought of a couple of things I should have done differently, assuming >the
girl Explorer is allowed to attend Troop campouts.
> 1. Her parents, both of whom were in attendance as leaders on the trip,
>allowed their daughter to explore the State Park, without a buddy. In
>retrospect, I should have insisted that either mom or dad be their
>daughters buddy at all times. I should have made sure that she followed
>the buddy system, just as the boys in the Troop did.
> 2. She set up her own tent and slept by herself. Again, I should have
>insisted that she have a tent buddy, most likely her mother.
That's the way it should have worked out, Phil. Parents are responsible for
their non-unit children during Scouting events.
>I have read and re-read the Guide to Safe Scouting, and find no reference
to this matter, other than to the guidelines of who can go camping.
Take a look at the following:
Page 4, items 4, 5, and 6.
Page 13, the second and third points. The last paragraph on the second
point applies specifically to the parental responsibilty for "non-unit"
youth taking part, as she did, in a camping activity or event.
Page 33 (which refers you to the BSA's Youth Protection program materials)
>As we are having a committee meeting tonight, I would appreciate any
>responses by private e-mail. (I have the list server set to digest, and
will >not receive any postings to the list until the morning)
I'm posting this to you and to the list at large, Phil, because I'm sure
that there's other parents/Scouters that have encountered the same situations.
>My gut feeling is that she should not be allowed to go camping with the
>Troop. BUT, I would feel more comfortable if I had something in writing
>from official policy that I could "hang my hat on." So far, I believe all
I >have received is personal opinions. I need the facts.
She cannot go camping *with the Troop*, Phil, simply because she's a girl.
She CAN, however, go camping *with the rest of her family* whom are serving
as leaders of a Boy Scout Troop. Her parents, and not the Troop, assumes
responsibility for her whether she's 17, 12 ,or 4 from the time they leave
until the time they return. The BSA's insurance doesn't cover her because
she's not a registered member or guest of that unit (she's not a guest
because, again, girls can't become Boy Scouts). She's simply a
"straphanger", a person that is going along for the ride and the experience.
She should be treated like that BY HER PARENTS.
If other parents are unconfortable about her prescence during those
campouts, perhaps its time that the youth considers camping out with her
Exploring unit. Many vocational Explorer Posts and Ships do campout and the
experience can be a different and enjoyable experience for her to
participate in. If her unit doesn't camp, they should (its part of
Exploring's six experience areas) and she should be encouraging them to do so.
If Mom and Dad are insistant about her continuing to camp, Mom and Dad need
to get a separate camping area for their family and their daughter needs to
camp with her folks within that area.
Your District Executive is correct in his statement....he just didn't go far
enough in explaining it to you and that's a lick on him for not explaining
it completely in order for you as a unit leader to make an informed decision.
The Youth Protection Plan has the exact "standards" on camping.
I hope this helps out both your Committee and yourself as well as others
that have similar concerns about this!
(c) 1997 Mike Walton ("no such thing as strong coffee,...") (502) 827-9201
(settummanque, the blackeagle) http://dynasty.net/users/blkeagle
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