Re: Brownie Pine
settummanque, or blackeagle (blkeagle@DYNASTY.NET)
Tue, 19 Aug 1997 17:37:11 -0500
Bob C asked about trading between adults and youth:
> In my council (Detroit Area Council), it has always been
>explicitly stated that adults are not to trade patches with
>youth. Only youth-to-youth, or adult-to-adult trading is allowed.
>My question is, is the "no trading between adults and children"
>a local thing, or is there a BSA rule, by-law, etc which addresses
>it? Also, what is the reasoning behind it? I assume it is related
>to youth protection, but I could be wrong. And finally on that
>subject, is the prohibition international?
Let me please answer them in reverse order:
First, the "Scouts-Scouts, adults-adults" policy is NOT an international
one; most other nations' Scouting associations have very little patches
and insignia compared to the hundreds of insignia that the BSA uses.
The rationale behind the BSA's policy on patch trading is rather simple:
It keeps Scouts from being "taken" by those *few adults*. Note that MOST
ADULTS are responsible when it comes to trading as we are with other aspects
of Scouting behavior. But it takes those few "rottens" to make people steer
clear away from trading period. The same can be said about a few Scouts,
as well, mainly older Scouts that have "caught on" and take new Scouters and
patch collectors (and some experienced ones as well) off for a loop when
they trade "worthless" insignia for some rather
rare stuff during Scouting activities and events.
It *is* a national policy, which is explained in the current BSA Insignia
Guide and in other Scouting publications (The Scoutmasters' Handbook, for
one). The policy was adopted by action of the BSA's National Executive Board
in 1978 and again in 1990 with additional guidance concerning Order of the
Arrow patches and insignia (no more "one per life", no more "insignia
exceeding the dimensions of the pocket flap", for two)
Now, let me BRIEFLY explain what *may well will be* the next step in the
BSA's attempt to curb problems with patch collecting and trading. There is
a VERY STRONG reaction from the evaluations/comments from this year's
Jamboree to force the BSA to *possibly* FORBID TRADING OF ANY KIND on the
Jamboree grounds. This is an extreme point-of-view,
but is justified.
During the 81 and 85 Jamborees, the BSA set up special "Patch trading tents"
in each of the Regional camps or adjancent to those camps. Patch trading
went on there day and night, to the detriment of the official Jamboree
program. Unlike in past years, when businesses and companies would come and
set up at the Jamboree out of good will and good will alone, many of the
businesses and large corporations came at the invite of the BSA and part of
the Jamboree fee went toward offsetting their participation. By large
numbers of Scouts and Scouters off the trail trading and swapping patches
with each other, very few Scouts actually went to the various Action Centers
and participated in the "official program". This year's Jamboree featured a
large number of "scaled down" events and activities with an emphasis on
those things that the BSA don't have to
"subsidize". Still, larger numbers of Scouts and Scouters were not
interested in those activities and lined streets and camping areas with
their patch and memorbilia wares.
So, this possibility is being looked into deeply but don't be surprised if
after all of the reviews in October or late November, that the BSA's
National Executive Board decides on the "no trading on the grounds period"
rule. It WILL NOT STOP TRADING....Scouts and Scouters will continue to
trade and swap patches and insignia on the way going to and leaving, and
they will trade and swap addresses for "future trades" back home (as I've
recommended over at the Jamboree discussion list earlier this summer).
The BSA is trying to maintain a tradition of trading patches and insignia
which goes back to the earlier days of the BSA with today's "Gotta Have It!"
mentality. In doing so, they may be forced to keep the Jamboree grounds
from becoming one large swap meet and to keep the program going and growing;
we may end up with a separate day or event *just for trading*.
Hope this all helps out, Bob!!
(c) 1997 Mike Walton ("no such thing as strong coffee,...") (502) 827-9201
(settummanque, the blackeagle) http://dynasty.net/users/blkeagle
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