Re: Age rules vs. Reality - Question
settummanque, or blackeagle (blkeagle@DYNASTY.NET)
Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:34:26 -0500
No flame here, Marc....just some reasoned explaination:
>> Marc Solomon stated:
>> >You are mistaken here on a number of things, Chuck. Joey never 'needs'
>> >JLT. It is not required for any advancement or to hold any position of
And I responded:
>> I *strongly disagree* with your statement, Marc. That's like telling a
>> Scoutmaster that "You don't have to go to Wood Badge...it's not
>>required for any advancement and the best Scoutmasters out there >>never
attended Wood Badge"
>And I know very many successful SM's who haven't gone to Wood
>Badge. If you ask me, "Should they?" I would say most definitely YES.
>If you ask me are they required to go, the answer would be, NO. I think it
>is foolish NOT to attend Wood Badge.
We agree on the value of both programs, but I still disagree with you about
"Joey NEEDING JLT". That's the part that I was disagreeing with you about.
Yes, Joey NEEDS Junior Leader Training if HE chooses and if HIS TROOP
recommendes him to attend this special weeklong course. It's not something
he's "looking for to get a badge with" nor is it part of the process toward
becoming an Eagle Scout (or even Star or Life for that matter). But Joey
does need Junior Leader Training (which goes by various localized names
within local Councils; here, it's STILL called "GO SILVER BARS!"; in the
Council where I last served as Scoutmaster, it was called "Golden Falcon")
if he feels that it would make him a better leader
(and/or the Scoutmaster feels that it would make his or her Troop better).
>> Not only do I as a former Scoutmaster INSIST that my Senior Patrol
>>Leader attends the Council JLT, it's a *requirement for candidancy* to
>>Senior Patrol Leader.
>That's great, Mike, if you have an experience troop. For many young
>troops, this is not an option. They do not have the base of JLT trained
>Scouts to put in such a requirement.
This was a reorganized Troop; the "stipulation" was part of the election
process; whomever became SPL went to Golden Falcon (the name of our
Council's JLT course) at Troop's expense the following June. Period.
This is in addition to the District/Unit Troop Operations Workshop that we
do within the unit itself.
Why would we do such a thing?? Because the first year that we did it, the
SPL came back so *fired up* that he reformed the Troop, installed a series
of reforms to get more boys in the Troop, and did a series of service
projects (because he said he sat beside another SPL from a different
District's Troop and they were "competing" as to which Troop would be in the
newspaper more....he lost but I'm here to tell you that our Troop won!)
Since then, we've been sending the SPL (whether or not he attended a course
in the past; there's always something to learn!) and the ASPL if the Troop's
Committee and I feel that he "has potential to stick around and be of
service", which we got!
The Troop "invests" the $70 per Scout to get a seat and in a couple of years
had to place the ASPL on the "standby list" because of the large numbers of
SPLs attending. While the Troop never has been rich, the amount of money we
"invested" in the leadership training course has come back manyfold in the
way of less time I had to spend as Scoutmaster and more "face time" that he
spends as Senior Patrol Leader with the members of the Troop without having
to "theaten to get" me to correct
a minor discipline or program problem!!
>We basically agree. I, too, feel that JLT is a very worthwhile course.
>No where in my post did I ever suggest it wasn't or that Joey shouldn't
But you implied that if Joey didn't get to go, it's "no big deal". It may
not be to you or your unit, but Chuck didn't think so or else he wouldn't even
posted the note to the list asking us all if the "age rule" was a "uniformed
thing" or something just applied there locally.
My response centered around the fact that JLT SHOULD be a "big deal",
that ALL Troops and Teams should send someone to attend the course
(and in doing that, explained what the course is about in general terms so
that everyone understands what's so important about *this* course), and
finally to explain that while JLT costs money and is kinda like Wood Badge
(nominative, selective, etc.), that it's worth Chuck's time to speak with the
course staff advisor and get Joey a "standby seat".
All of that hinges on whether or not Chuck feels that the extra effort would
bring Joey and his Troop some benefit. I believe (and have experience) that
Again, no flame....just reasoned explaination. Sorry if you felt my
response was "ignition"!!
(c) 1997 Mike Walton ("no such thing as strong coffee,...") (502) 827-9201
(settummanque, the blackeagle) http://dynasty.net/users/blkeagle
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