Totin' Chip and Hazing
David F. Delman (Delman01@COMPUSERVE.COM)
Wed, 14 May 1997 08:14:08 -0400
Just read all the Scouts-L messages since John A's 5/9 posting
Wanted to add my future intentions based upon them.
I like and saved what Ian 5/10 eloguently wrote
Basically my own objectives are very close
-the boys learning consequences for action or in-action
-This is important for us to teach in a safe haven place
-adults accepting accountability to maintain a quality scouting program
-so the boys know someone really cares for all of scouting
-not just a small portion, just the fun, or convenient portions
-the action adult in the situation described being supportive
of the boy, the program and still firm willed.
-This adult remembering it is his/her actions/inactions that
are the true template and performance bench mark for the boys.
Hopefully with a few more years of experience as bigger boys we are more
mature; although, ladies sometimes say males and maturity are oxymorons.
-the boys learning self accountability, and self discipline
>From what he wrote I agree with how John A. handled the Eagle Scout.
Would also agree with what Jim Peterson would have done but a bit less
Q= Should we take the diploma away for an hour or day?
Alan S.'s PLC rules are OK too, seemingly a bit harsh but might work
wonders in his troop because it seems to be a boy-led deterrent.
If someone chopped corners in public I wouldn't mind too much either
as long as done as part of a consistently supportive practice. Would
recommend the boy cut his own corner and do a hands on demo of some
part of the Totin Chip requirement.
Personally(with all our hindsights as companions)
(For a troop w/o a strong heritage, or an effective PLC)
(and only for the incident and boy type John A described)
I would have stopped the poor knife handling.
Taken the Eagle aside a second and told him we needed to talk.
He would know I would be chopping off a corner of his card or asking
him for an alternative. He would already know that when four corners
are gone he would have to go back to class in some fashion.
My words would go something like
"You can't do that. We need to talk later"
"You need to set a strong example and be a good teacher by word and"
" more importantly actions. The boys are looking uphill first to you"
"Make sure you tell them about our practice of chopping off corners
"from the totin cards as you continue teaching them."
The idea here is move fast and get him back doing JASM quickly.
At the follow on meeting that night I would chop off a corner or ask him
to think up an alternative. I would follow his alternative if supportive
of good scouting rejecting any negative alternative. In respect for J. Peterson's
comment, if a corner was to be chopped off because he wanted to take this easier
path we would set a date to give him a new card so he could keep both to show his
Haven't chopped one off yet but came close twice on Camporees when boys from
another troop were throwing axes into trees. They ran too fast and their
adults weren't anywhere in sight. Before I would do this in a new troop I
would make sure that active adults and scouts knew that this was our
joint accountability and plan of action i.e. not a suprise. Then I would be
consistent in follow through.
On the lighter side: As a boy (non-scout) I used to play mumbly-peg
with knifes. Jim Bowie and Huck Finn were idiols back in those days and
since my name is Dave guess what I was occasionally called. Only fought
one bar, a 6'2" fourth grader who had previously used me as a mud ball target.
He wasn't really a bear but to a fourth grader 6'2 looks like one.
Thanks, This tread helped me be better prepared
YiS, IMHO, and may we all attempt to live the SO, SL, SM, and SS
Mr Dave (David Delman (Hawleyton, NY
Terry Howerton Sakima Group, Inc. SCOUTER Magazine Kansas City