Re: What to do with extra Pins and Patches
Ben G Privet (bprivet@JUNO.COM)
Tue, 8 Oct 1996 23:05:07 EDT
Now you've gone and stepped in it, again! Attacking all the Boy Scout
Leaders, hmm. Let's see, according to you:
1. Cub Leaders are "fresh and looking for ideas...."; I guess Boy Scout
Leaders must be smelly and have seen all the ideas.
2. "or maybe by the time many adults get to the Boy Scout level of
Scouting, they forget all about promoting things and take a back seat
while the boys run their own program using the patrol method". Oh no,
this could be a case of Baden Powell-itis. I hear it worsens with
3. Boy Scout Leaders think "I've been there, done that, don't need to do
it again." or maybe they're thinking "I think it's the boys' turn to do
4. Maybe the reason we do not see the red Patch Vest more often is
because Adult Leaders do not promote the wearing of it by putting one on
themselves. Maybe they don't like them either.
Oh boy Rich, that's some indictment of all other scout leaders.
Well, let me be the first to state the painfully obvious and say that
there's a world of difference between being a Cub leader and being a Boy
Scout leader. It's sounds as if you don't have a lot of experience being
a Boy Scout Leader, Rich. Please correct me if I'm wrong (I doubt it
When your boy(s) gets older and moves on to Boy Scouts, you'll probably
be in for more of a transition than he will. Brace yourself guy, it may
come as a surprise to you but, Boy Scouts **IS** a boy run organization
and if those leaders you denigrated actually do take a back seat and
while their boys run their own program using the patrol method, guess
what? They're doing **EXACTLY** what they're supposed to be doing. I have
suggested on many occasions that there should be a special training
course that will retrain (transition) the pushy mother hen types of Cub
leaders (thankfully they're the minority) to let their Boy Scout do for
himself. You know the type Rich, don't you ? Something pre-SMF perhaps.
Give him room to grow into manhood. Rich, why do you think the good
people on Scouts-L so often need to discuss "what to do with the new
adults in the troop"? It is often an ongoing problem.
For example, on that same camporee that I was looking for those patch
vests (seemed like an old fashioned snipe hunt for a while there), a
couple of us were standing on the sidelines keeping an eye on the new
scout patrol of our troop as they cooked their foil dinners. Things were
going well, one of the older Boy Scouts was instructing the younger ones
in "the fine art" when one of the new adults (new committee member) came
over and proceeded to remove his son's foil package from the coals and
repackage it for him. He then started to lecture the older scout on what
he should have done for his dinner! Now, not knowing this fellow very
well, I merely walked next to him and said something like Hi Dan (not his
name), I bet you were a cubmaster last year, he said he was (to nobody's
surprise) and I said that we could tell right away. I don't know if he
got the message but, he seemed to calm down after that and I don't think
his feelings were hurt. We all hoped that the father learned a little
something that day.
Another thing Rich, what ever gave you the notion that one of the jobs
of a scout leader is to "promote" B.S.A. products? I know that I'm not
going to give up my valuable pack space just to carry around a B.S.A.
catalog. I mean come on Rich, get real here. I wonder how Pack 6 is
outfitted for all the "catalog" doodads? I'll just go out on a limb here
and say that it's likely that you and maybe your son(s) are almost the
only ones who look like you stepped off of the
pages of that catalog. Just how many Cubs and adults in Pack 6 wear those
patch vests that you're so fond of ? Are you one of those Cubmasters who
does things like make a contest of an annual uniform inspection. Oh, you
didn't know it's not a contest I'll bet and I'll venture to say that your
son always "wins". Come on Rich, tell the truth ;^) Who won the last few
pinewood derbies in your pack , huh? Was it your car, in mean your son's
car ? Do you try to let everyone feel good about whatever they do
whenever you can ? Whether it's their uniform, patches, or just "doing
their best" when it comes to some requirement or other or are you the
type who requires perfection ? A Cub Scout's best should always be good
enough for you.
For anyone wondering, Rich and I don't know each other even though
we're from the same state. I just think I've seen this frame of mind
enough in my many years in scouting that I think I can take some educated
guesses as to some things that may be going on in Rich's pack. If I'm
wrong about Rich's pack, I apologize in advance and I can actually come
up to Lowell someday and see this wonder pack in person. I hope that Rich
doesn't take any of this as an attack on him, on Cub leaders in general,
or on his pack in any event.
But, I think too much of this kind of thing goes on in too many packs.
I just think of those poor boys who get discouraged because they can't
afford those spiffy new uniforms of those hot off the rack pinewood derby
cars. Maybe their Dads don't have a woodworking workshop. Maybe their
Mom's working her butt off just trying to make ends meet. Sometimes
Cubmasters and others need to get off that high horse and sometimes share
the leadership and stop putting pressure on the Cubs and the Den Leaders
to get all that stuff from the catalog. There's nothing wrong with
setting the example or encouraging things we shouldn't try to add
additional requirements for the cubs. After all it's their pack not yours
and not mine and they're only going to stay around as long as they're
You seem to think very highly of yourself and I guess that's O.K.. Just
remember Rich, that self inflicted pat on the back may feel pretty good
but it's only about 18 inches from a kick in the rear.
Lighten up, remember Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is not an us against
them situation. We are all scouts, all over the world, Cubs, Boys,
Explorers, Girls, Brownies, Rovers, Ventures, Joeys, Beavers and any
other terms we might apply. We all need to work together as often as we
can because the youth we serve deserve no less.
Hey I just checked out page BS 8 like Rich told us to and I think I'll
get one of those item 14s, #T00511s and stick on my CRT next time Rich
posts something. Thanks Rich, I thought **All** the items on that page
were pretty useless. BTW, for those without a catalog available the item
referred to is a large Scouting Emblem (9 1/4" x 8 1/2" )sun catcher with
a suction cup for sticking to your screen <g> for only $7.85. Oh yes they
come in a youth size: item 13; #T00512 (4" x 3 1/2") only $5.10.
Hey Rich, you've really got me excited about the possibilities for
catalog doodads. I've got to call the Scout Shop and put in my order so I
can stick one on my forehead and promote it for the next camp out. I'll
tell them Rich inspired me. I'm sure if all the leaders in a Boy Scout
Troop or Cub Scout Pack bought a sun catcher or made their own, then all
of a sudden a lot of boys would
want to wear one too.
I don't know how we would explain those funny looking suction cup marks
Keep smiling, my friend, even though it hurts sometimes.
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 07:58:55 -0400 "Richard L. Axtman"
>In a SCOUTS-L discussion message sent by;
>Ben G Privet <bprivet@JUNO.COM> of Cambridge, MA
>Sun, 6 Oct 1996 09:41:41 EDT
>Subject of: Re: What to do with extra Pins and Patches
>Ben wrote: I have never run across a Boy Scout who was
> willing to wear one of those (red Patch) vests.
> They seem to consider it "a Cub Scout thing."
> There were also a few patch blankets, but not
> a single "Red Award Vest"! I wonder if anyone
> else has noticed this? Is this the general
> situation when it comes to Boy Scouts and
> those vests?
>As for being a "Cub Scout Thing," maybe it is because Cub Scout
>leaders promote it, they are fresh and looking for ideas to
>improve their Pack's Program. Or maybe by the time many adults
>get to the Boy Scout level of Scouting, they forget all about
>promoting things and take a back seat while the boys run their
>own program using the patrol method and developing their own
>leadership skills, or the adults may be thinking, "I've been
>there, done that, don't need to do it again."
>Have a look at page "BS 8" in the 1996 Official BSA Catalog,
>which a section title of "BOY SCOUT - UNIFORMS & ACCESSORIES"
>it shows the "Patch Vest" as item "5" catalog #T537 (sizes for
>youth) and item T539 (sizes for Adults). It shows it as a
>Uniform Accessory in Boy Scout youth and adult sizes. Use a
>catalog to point this out to Scouts and leaders when you talk
>about the red "Patch Vest."
>Maybe the reason we do not see the red Patch Vest more often
>is because Adult Leaders do not promote the wearing of it
>by putting one on themselves. I'm sure if all the leaders
>in a Boy Scout Troop or Cub Scout Pack bought a vest or made
>their own, that all of a sudden a lot of boys would want to
>wear one too. It would catch on, when the boys and adults see
>all the great patches that have earned over the years on display
>It is true that you see many adults wearing the red
>Jac-Shirt, BSA Catalog #T553 and #T554, but not many youth.
>Why you might ask, because the red Jac-Shirt cost $64.40 for
>a youth size and $74.75 to $78.75 depending on an Adults size.
>I think this makes it expensive for some members to purchase,
>when many of them have a hard time affording a complete
>basic uniform. Just wait until the 1997 catalog, I bet the
>prices will be even higher. Historically they did increase
>from the 1995 to 1996 catalog.
>May I therefore suggest, that more adults should start
>considering the promotion and wearing the red "Patch Vest."
>It is far more affordable ($10.95 to $13.95). It cost less
>than a Jac-Shirt or a red patch blanket. You can even make
>your own, to look exactly like the one sold by BSA for a
>fraction of the cost, if you shop around for cloth or cut
>up a red blanket you can make several of them. The red Patch
>Vest could even be worn over a red Jac-Shirt if you own one.
>Its all up to you and your leaders, what you want to promote.
>You may want to stop a minute and think about the contents
>of your Scout's wallets and of ways you can help them overcome
>their lack of finances.
>I think appearance is very important it helps build, character,
>moral, Pack/Troop spirit and increases membership and participation
>in Scouting. Remember we lead by EXAMPLE and by helping to
>improve the program the boys and the adults participate in.
>This is just my two cents worth.
>Best In Scouting,
>Cubmaster, Pack 6
Terry Howerton Sakima Group, Inc. SCOUTER Magazine Kansas City