Re: Patch for Scouts-L?
(no name) ((no email))
Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:41:44 -0500
Branden Morris raises some valid points in his reasoning why he wouldn't
support or purchase an "electronic scouters" emblem or patch.
>Patches, IMHO, and YMMV, are used for two reasons -- 1) to identify, and 2)
>to symbolize recognition. Council strips, troop numbers, lodge flaps, etc.
>all show where you come from and what you do. Badges, square knots, etc.
>allow you to show pride in your accomplishments. To me, these are
>appropriate uses for those ever-so-attractive bits of thread and twill.
You have forgotten the THIRD major reason why a patch is issued: to symbolize
PARTICIPATION. This is why we have camporee patches, segments and
neckerchiefs; why we have participation emblems like Philmont and the
National Camping School; and why we have participation emblems like the
international scouting events (like INTERCAMP here in Europe). It all serves
to remind the Scout/Scouter of the good times they have had during the event
as well as to publicize the "next time" such an event will transpire.
Like the official NOAC participant's patch, backpatch and neckerchief with pin.
How else would you recognize participation in such an event by those choosing
Yes, as you've observed during NOAC, there seems to be an explosion of patches,
neckerchiefs, hat pins, and hats for such a small event....this too, is a
being a part of a national event. To place it in another context, you will
both the Republican convention as well as the Democratic convention various
placards, buttons, hat pins, and other items which were made "just for this
and which will become "collector's items" at the end of the century, no
wins the election.
>The majority of patches being produced don't conform to one of the two
>reasons above (and while they're not the only reasons, I feel they're the
>_primary_ reasons, at least in my opinion. :)), and if they don't meet
>those aims above, then I almost have to question their usefulness or
But they DO serve as a "marker" for those participating in such a event from
various communities, states, or even countries. If made in sufficent SMALL
quantities, they can be something that each person can hold onto, wear and
remember the "good times to be had" during the event. That's the key: SMALL
Jessica and I could have funneled the "proceeds" from the patch sales into
more patches and a second, third and fourth run could have been made (with
each run, of
course, being worth less than the original run to a patch collector out
there somewhere!!). We held it at 110 because we wanted to make sure that
everyone had a chance to get one (and we STILL owe two people patches, so we
WILL be making a second run!!!) and at the same time to place in the hands
of those that we "support"
a small amount of change to prove that "this can work and you can make it work".
>Yes, it's important to make money for issues (and I do like Mike Walton's
>idea of at least using the profits for a good cause like the World
>Friendship Fund). However, I think we could do better than making "internet
>scouting" patches. Take the money you'd spend on a patch, and give it to
>your council's endowment fund; help send a kid to camp; pay for an
>improvement project for your troop or council or camp; do something local,
>and forget about the patch.
That's what we now have a SQUARE KNOT for, Branden....the "money Knot"(the
West Fellowship)....and we don't really see a lot of people "forgetting
about the knot"
when they have contributed an amount to their Council....no buddy...if *I*
give that much, I want MORE than just a nice certificate and an invitation
to attend a chicken dinner next spring or summer (when I can be barbecuing
at camp!!)!! Give me that knot!! *hehehehee* (which is what the idea of it
was...and it's working rather well
in most Councils!!)
[note: I HAVE NOT "earned" or received a West Fellowship nor do I have plans to
do so until my family is a little better-off than we are now! It's NOT one
15 or so square knots on my field uniform!! I do have ONE in my personal
patch collection, however!! ]
>The way I see it, this list is like one big conference call. And though I
>know it might happen soon :) , we haven't yet created a patch for making a
>phone call ;) (though I can already hear someone out in cyberspace thinking
>of a design... phone-shaped cut patch, rolled edge, 7 colors, three
>different borders to make a collectible set...). It's a great resource for
>us all, and a lot of fun, but it's not a unit that we are part of, nor
>should we be recognized for participating in this list.
I feel otherwise. It would serve as a visable "commericial" if worn to
other Scouters that "hey....what's this "internet Scouter" thing??" which
starts a conversation about those recipes you provided two months ago and
the answer to how to get your Den
Chiefs to quiet the Cubs down before the start of the Den meeting...and
you know it, you're writing down on a scrap piece of paper from your wallet
the subscription address to Scouts-L (or other online Scouting venue) and
telling the person "and if you need help, give me a call....or here's my
It would also serve as a reminder that we are NOT in this activity alone,
but part of a "family of Scouts and Scouters" that reach beyond our
community and nation, and is somewhat what the Founder of Scouting would
envisioned....a daily exchange of ideas, emotions and thoughts with the
intent of helping each other and others without regard to program, borders
or any other
geopolitical "stuff" that gets in the way of "doing what's best".
>I realize that it's not a vote, and that people can do what they want, but
>I would just hope that if we do something like this, that some good
>(besides one more thing to trade and sell) comes out of this.
I know that folks will perhaps trade them (and I've seen some of them traded at
the past NOAC for some really nice stuff!!) but I would think that the vast
has found their ways onto a Scout shirt somewhere (even though the patch did NOT
contain a "BSA indicia") and because of that illegal patch placement, we've
some Scouters and perhaps some Scouts here (or on other forums) because of it.
In the design for the next round of patches, I've made the design more universal
because of the concern that ONLY Order of the Arrow patches belong on the right
pocket and more importantly so that other nation's Scouting associations'
could wear them in the place for temporary insignia as well.
Being also somewhat biased, I also feel that the campfire is highly
appropriate...moreso than the "bird of peace".
Your comments are VERY valid and I hope that you cross-post them over to the
Arrow-L venue for their comments as well....because it speaks highly that a OA
person would have objections to further "glutting the market" with "yet another
patch" and you're right...where *would it end*??
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (Settummanque, the blackeagle)
Deputy Public Affairs Officer, 21st Theater Army Area Command
Kaiserslautern, Federal Republic of Germany
"everything I say is "on the record"; speaking ONLY for myself unless indicated"
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