Re: First Knot location
Ernest R. Spradling (102736.1372@COMPUSERVE.COM)
Wed, 20 Mar 1996 21:38:17 EST
On Tue, 19 Mar 1996 12:48:02 -0800 JAMES A SHECKELS
>In a message dated 96-03-19 05:43:27 EST, donc@CCCD.EDU
>(Don Cock) writes:
>>>If you have two, together they are centered over
>>>the pocket. Three fit across the pocket.
>>I believe that the centering of two knots was changed in a recent
>>edition of the insignia guide along with the requirement that the knots
>>be worn in a certain order. Removing and reapplying the knots creates
>>excessive wear and tear on the uniform and on tyhe "sew-er".
>>Can anyone confirm or "authoritatively" deny this belief?
>The Insignia Control Guide does state that knots can be worn in any
>order. I believe the order of wear has been a non-issue since sometime
>in the sixties. Centering is also a non-issue, as it is not addressed
>in the guide.
>My guide is a 95 printing #33064. On page 44 it says knots are worn in
>order at the wearer's discretion. Rows up to three above the left
>pocket. No mention is made of centering. Seems it would make since
>for the first to be centered, with number 2 and 3 in any row to be
>added left or right of the first, or centered, at the wearer's
>(possibly the sewer's) discretion.
Centering two knots in one row over the button was ended in the 70s, when
the five knot limitation was lifted. Back in the 50s and 60s, only five knots
could be worn, and the only way was a row of three next to the pocket
flap, and a row of two over the first row. All rows were to be centered.
Of course, there was not the proliferation of knots like there is today.
There was even a sequence, which has been covered in numerous previous
postings (maybe I'll dig the thread out of my archives & upload it).
I looked back at my old "uniform & Insignia Guides, Insignia Guides, etc.
Although there's no longer a"rule" for it, it looks better than having
two knots "listing to one side over the pocket :)
>My sewer (read that wife - Becky) has ensured I am trained at center
>sewing and matching thread colors, not to mention bobbin (?)
>operations. So I can attest that the motivation to center does indeed
>offer some wear and tear on the sewer.
>Some of my shirts display wear and tear from patch removal and
>replacement. This occurs mostly on the left sleeve from office
>patch-itis. I resolved this by putting velcro on several shirts to
>change patches when I change hats. My dress scout uniform has my Troop
>numbers and CoR patch on it permanently.
Maybe you should try setting your stitching at 6-8 stitches per inch, instead of
trying to get 20 per inch. This makes removal easier, and does not wear the
shirt fabric out as quickly. The threads are more visible, however.
>I have known some who put their knots on a thin plastic or cardboard
>backing with clutch-style pins and clamps (like the hat pin clutch) so
>they can easily move their fruit salad to whichever uniform they are
>wearing. Only thing here is to watch the position of the World Crest
>as the salad grows. (BTW, fruit salad = military slang for rows of
>colorful ribbons ;-)). Before you ask, the position of the World Crest
>menas naught when the shirt is very small or the knots are large in
>count. Stick it on the shirt above the left pocket that looks good
>when you have whatever other ornaments you wear on the shirt. (Let the
>hardcore uniform police stuff that in their pipe and smoke it...oops,
>tobacco is out,,let's see, OK - stuff that in their mesh bag and
I have hand-sewn my knots into s single "patch" which is then sewn on
the shirt. This way, I can take the whole patch off and put it on another
shirt. For that matter, if you have more than one knot that can hold a
miniature "program device," then the row of knots may be held in place
with the devices. Eagle Palms are useful for this too, if one has
earned them. I tried that, and did not like how the knots looked (corners
sticking up and all that).
"Fruit salad." I like that, and will remember it. When I was a boy, we called
those with as many, or more, insignia than what could be technically
correctly worn, "Christmas trees." We would see one, then sing "O
Christmas Tree..." for all to hear. Since it was good-natured jibing, no
recipient took offense :)
Randy Spradling, P.E.
Arrowhead District Simon Kenton Council
(and a correctly uniformed Christmas Tree :)
Terry Howerton Sakima Group, Inc. SCOUTER Magazine Kansas City