Re: Knots people wear
Ernest R. Spradling (102736.1372@COMPUSERVE.COM)
Wed, 22 Nov 1995 23:55:40 EST
Oh, those naughty (or is it "knotty") knots are back again :)
On Mon, 20 Nov 1995 02:22:58 -0600"Settummanque the blackeagle
(Mike Walton)" <mwalton@ALPHA.COMSOURCE.NET> wrote in
response to John Shotwell:
>>...Why is the District Award of Merit knot an overhand knot and not
>> a square knot like all the other knots?
>Good question. Two or more Districts make up a Council, so in the logical
>design of the knot, the overhand knot was chosen since half of a square knot
>(or a granny knot, depending on the way you tie it! *grinning*) is an
Or a thief's knot (he he he). That explanation stands to reason - I always
wondered why the overhand knot :)
>> Will national ever make the Commissioner's Key and the Scouter's Key
>Nope, because both keys historically are tied to that "Key" concept, and old
>habits die hard, I'm afraid. Eventually, there will be a division between the
>(there's also an Advisor's, a Skipper's and one for the Exploring Service
>Team Member/Commissioner) Keys, but I don't see it happening any time soon.
C'mon, Mike, there's only so much real estate over that left pocket. Will we be
seeing knots on _both_ sides of the shirt, too? :)
I don't think that coming up with a new knot or award provides an incentive for
recognizing a leader's commitment to training, performance and tenure, when the
thing that is needed is a more active marketing of the existing awards by the
district and council training committees. I know many a good Scout leader who
has fulfilled the training, performance and tenure requirements, and won't
through on the paperwork, because they have some sort of misplaced notion that
to do so is being boastful.
>...adults be recognized sooner, with ALL leaders (the past awards were limited
>to the Den Leaders, Den Leader Coach, Assistant Cubmaster and
>Committeemembers, and the Cubmaster)
>able to work toward their *own* award, and without the cheesy "mini medals",
>that the BSA should work on a new set of awards --and knot emblems for them.
Funny, I thought that the Cub Leader recognitions were revamped because the
female leaders (let's face it - females still comprise the majority of Cub
here in the parts of the States I've lived) were more comfortable wearing a
"necklace" than a pin-on medal.
True, the Scouter's Key and Training Award have been around for quite a long
time, at least since the 20's, with only a couple or three changes: replacement
of the Scout Badge (First Class) with the Tenderfoot badge on the Scouter's Key,
inverting the "V" to make an "A" and replacing the solid green ribbon on the
Training Award with the narrow white stripe. The program devices must have
come around in the 50's, and then they were reserved only for the Key, not the
Training Award (the Scouter's Key and Training Award shared the same knot - the
miniature program devices were reserved for Key recipients). I think this was
changed by 1985, when the devices were also used on the Training Award and
to designate in what program a youth earned a religious award.
I gotta admit that those "mini medals" look cheesy today, but the older ones
(you know - the ones that actually were "gold filled" on a darker green ribbon)
don't look so bad. That garish bright green has to go!
Now, if you want to see something cheesy, look at the new Commissioner's
device! They axed the wreath, and it now looks like the District Committee
device. What next, no wreaths on the Commissioner's badges of office? Insignia
Committee already deleted them from Roundtable Staff badges because of the
theory that Roundtable Staff are not Commissioners.
Mike, good to see another "fun" subject. BTW, regarding your knot index: I keep
getting 403s whenever I try to access your knot Web Page. thru CI$/Spry Mosaic
Anyone else having that problem?
Hope all of you and yours in the States have a Happy Thanksgiving, and that
you don't gorge yourselves to the point of physical distress :)
Randy Spradling, P.E.
Arrowhead District Simon Kenton Council
(and a good ole Owl, too! SR-5)
Terry Howerton Sakima Group, Inc. SCOUTER Magazine Kansas City