Re: Why female adult on all outings?(Long)
David Brown (dbrown@PCUG.ORG.AU)
Tue, 28 Mar 1995 14:30:17 +1000
Samuel Sprayberry wrote:
>Because it IS a double standard my dear. It is happening for the same
>reason that a female can become a scoutmaster and a male can't be a
>scoutmaster over girls. Society thinks males are dirty old men for
>taking an intrest in their daughters while females are to be admired for
>taking an intrest in their sons.
I agree that there is a double standard but I think it should be brought out
and eliminated. When I was a Venturer Leader (15-18 year olds) we had a
very progressive Chief Commissioner in the ACT who actively stated that
Venturers did not require a female leader. This one act anabled mixed
Venturing to become much more viable here because it eliminated the need to
find some poor female, typically a caring mum, who would allow herself to be
dragged along on some activity so her daughter could join in the fun.
(Don't take this wrongly, any female who wants to come is always welcome but
they can be hard to find sometimes).
Now as a Scout Leader (11-15 year olds) I find I am very much inhibited by
this rule. I think that even if I take my own daughter as the only female
on a troop outing I should have an adult female. It can be very difficult
but there are enough people around who will enforce the law no matter what,
that it must be complied with. The end result is that if a mum does not
come forth, then the girls in the troop miss out. I think that is
We should bring pressure to bear on our respective Associations to do
something about it. Perhaps one idea is for individual Scout Groups to take
their own vote among the parents at an annual general meeting. I will bring
this up at Group Council next week to see how it flies. I will let you know.
> I stick to this, females, get involved in girl scouts and stay
>out of boy scouts.
> Males, get involved in boy scouts and stay out of girl scouts.
This is so ridiculous that words (almost) fail me. I dont know enough about
the female sides of our movement to comment on them but why should girls
miss out on the fun of (Boy) Scouting just because of their genital make up?
>are some places men don't belong just like there are places women don't
The places I go with my scouts 'belong' to both boys and girls. The bush is
for everyone - get there while you can before the loggers turn it into
> It breaks my heart to see the BSA falling into this pc crap.
Access to Scouting for all young people has nothing to do with political
correctness. It has to do with not denying 50% of our young people one of
the greatest experiences available. It has to do with giving them self
confidence, leadership experience, outdoor skills, self reliance, and so on.
It makes no sense to say one group in the community is 'not allowed' to do
> But heaven forbid that we tell a woman she can't go somewhere or
>get involved in something, we might hurt her feelings! But men, step
>aside, women can do that to you!
In Oz there does not seem to be very much interest from boys in getting into
Guiding (the equivalent of Girl Scouts). I am not close to Guiding and
therefore have solid no basis for these comments but my belief is that this
is mainly due to program content and delivery. I suspect that if Guiding
delivered a program that was attractive to boys as well as girls there would
be pressure from boys to join. I also suspect that a lot of Guide Leaders
would be thrilled if this were to happen and the artificial gender based
barriers would come tumbling down. I think they remain as vestigial 19th
century appendages because there is no call to change. It has nothing at
all to do with discrimination as you were trying to suggest.
> Like I said, list flame me if you want but I am exercising my
>free speech on the net before big brother puts a stop to it all.
Samuel, this is not a flame. It is meant to offer you a different
viewpoint. My youth Scouting was male only and I loved it. My adult
Scouting started off male only and has now become mixed. I am 100%
convinced that we have all benefited from the change. If you can, I would
recommend that you go to a Jamboree with a mixed troop. I am sure you will
enjoy the way the boys and girls interact and perform together. I am
confident that if you do you will gain a whole new perspective.
61 6 292 1720
Terry Howerton Sakima Group, Inc. SCOUTER Magazine Kansas City