Re: Eagle vs Gold
Settummanque, the blackeagle (waltoml@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU)
Mon, 6 Feb 1995 21:57:53 CDT
(Olan...would you please crosspost this back to the GEnie Public Forum
RT for me please? Thanks!)
Dennis from GEnie wrote:
> I'm not quite sure that you understand the process for a boy scout to obtain
>his eagle rank. It is very unlike the 5 requirements for a girl scout to get
>her gold award. ANY high school age girl can join girl scouts and can
>immediatly start her gold award with that being her ONLY award other than the
>Leadership pin, 4 interest patches, and a career exploration pin all of which
>are 3 of the 5 requirements for the Gold award.
And ANY high school age boy can join a Boy Scout Troop, Dennis, and
start work toward Eagle, earn it before his Junior year of school,
and by his Senior year, have the Silver Palm to the Eagle Scout Badge.
Despite what you think, a Boy Scout does NOT have to start out as a
Cub Scout in order to become an Eagle Scout. The BSA runs stats on
this very aspect and only 32 percent, or almost a third (in 1990, the
last year I could get stats "in the clear") were holders of the Arrow
of Light, Cub Scouting's highest award. However, yes, there were 44
percent of Eagles that *were Cub Scouts at SOME time*.
> In order to achieve the rank of Eagle a boy scout must progress through the
>ranks of tenderfoot, second class, first class, star, and life BEFORE they can
>attain the rank of eagle. A boy joining scouts in high school MUST fulfill ALL
>the requirements for all the prior ranks in order to progress through eagle.
Not a hard thing to do nowadays, Dennis. From Tenderfoot to First
Class can now take a couple of months in an *extremely active Troop*,
as compared to the average 22 months it currently takes to earn First
Class in an "average Troop", says the BSA.
Even at the average level, 22 months is only a little less than two
years. From Star to Eagle is only a year and four months. That's the
additional two years needed to become an Eagle Scout before high
> Unless things have changed drastically since I was in scouts the entire
>process is a progression of specific disciplines and learning experiences
>designed to challenge the scout in a way that they will grow in mind and body.
Hasn't changed...just grew up some to reflect today's realities.
>These disciplines (which are requirements) include map reading, astronomy,
>identification of flora and fauna, cooking, camping, swimming, first aid,
>leadership and much more.
Take out the identification, the astronomy, and some first aid,
swimming and cooking, and you pretty well have it right now. Other
requirements include recognition of diversity of life, communicating
by the spoken and written word, small group interaction, teaching, and
listening. Still other requirements include recognition of hazards in
the community, in the family and personal hazards including the
prevention of diseases including AIDS. Finally, there are also some
requirements like understanding the composition of the community they
live in, understanding the concept of our form of democracy, and
demostrating elements of those concepts and composition by serving as
a member and later leader of a small group, leader of a group of small
groups, and participating in projects aimed at giving service to
That's just for the Tenderfoot, Second and First Class requirements.
> These are accomplished through the progression of
>requirements for each rank which build upon what was learned for the prior
>ranks. There are many specific and sometimes difficult tasks which build
>spirit, character, mind and body. There were (and I suppose still are) 21
>merit badges needed to get eagle with 10 being required. These required badges
>give training which includes advanced first aid, swimming, lifesaving (the
>equivalent of red cross life guard requirements) and other specific
>disciplines which are designed to make the Eagle scout prepared for most any
>situation which they may ever face in life.
Well..kind of. The merit badges presently include family living
skills, communication with groups in and out of Scouting, emergency
prepareness and execution, personal fitness and time and money
management. Also included in this list are merit badges covering the
role of the Scout in his community, nation and world, safety and
There are now 11 required merit badges with another 10 merit badges up
to each and every Scout to earn, which may vary from Scout to Scout.
These merit badges encompass some 100 areas of exploration and
interest, and provide excellent insight into a person's future, life
interests, and personal hobbies.
> Earning the rank of Eagle is the end product of much hard work and
>discipline. It is not unlike a Karate student progressing through the various
>levels of training and finally earning his black belt. A student CAN'T just
>start out with a brown belt and make the next progression to the black belt.
>That is the same with the Eagle scout. His path to Eagle is a total learning
>experience which is paramount on the culmination of all which has been taught
>throughout the entire experience.
But a person, intent on earning a black belt, can and indeed has done
this in a relatively short period of time. This doesn't make the
learning less than those that have taken their time to work through
each level...indeed the entire Scouting experience is tailored to each
Scout's PERSONAL ABILITY LEVEL to work as hard as *he* (not Momma nor
Pappa, nor the Scoutmaster nor anyone else except the SCOUT) want to
> Eagle is the culmination of the boy scouting experience which takes years
>to achieve. The Gold Award doesn't encompass the whole experience of Girl
>scouting. Actually there isn't ANY requirement that there is any prior girl
>scouting experience at all.
Just like there's isn't ANY requirement that there has to be any prior Boy
Scouting (Cub Scouting) experience at all too.
Let's get this correct, Dennis: it takes only 30 months on the average
to become an Eagle Scout. Two years and a half. That's it. This is
how we have so many Eagle Scouts at the age of 13 and 14.
The way I understand it, *most* Gold Award reciepients are 17 or 18
> There are only 5 requirements which can easily be
>achieved in less than a year. The only time requirement for the Gold award is
>30 hours of leadership. All of the requirements can be worked on concurrently
>other than the Gold award project. With a little drive and determination a
>girl can easily achieve her gold award in less than a year.
Likewise, the requirements for Eagle can also be earned concurrently,
as in earning the requirements for the merit badges, working on the
service project, serving as an leader of a patrol or troop, and being
active in the Troop and Patrol. As a matter of fact, that's how MOST
Scouts earn Eagle.
There are NO hours of leadership required as part of the Eagle Scout
requirements. Depending on the laxiety of the District or Council
committee overseeing the Eagle Scout process, a kid can do a
multi-unit AIDS education project, using the resources of nine
different organizations in two counties; or he can paint a fence in
front of a school or church all by himself. Both are Eagle projects,
both are acceptable in many circles.
I would rather see an acceptable "lower limit" on the time period used
in the development, planning, organizing, and implementation and the
evaluation afterwards of each and every Eagle project; than to
blindly accept "painting two fences on the school house property" as
an Eagle Scout Service project.
> You always hear about Eagle scouts or adults who have achieved the rank of
>Eagle performing acts of heroism and lifesaving. That is because they were
>trained to assess situations and their training provided them with the
>knowledge needed to carry out the proper techniques to handle the emergency.
Likewise, you have also heard about mothers and women performing great
acts of bravery and stamina while doing "routine" things. Just now,
are we all hearing how Girl Scouting experiences in leadership and
education has helped paved the way for many women to serve in roles as
officers and heads of corporate America. It will take some time for
the Girl Scouts of the USA to reach the same level that the Boy Scouts
of America has already reached many years ago and is now constanly
trying to maintain that level.
The girls that acheived Gold Award, First Class, the Curved Bar, the
Golden Eaglet, and their precessors have also been trained to assess
situations and the training that they receive, while less strenous
than Eagle's rough-and-ready outdoors experiences, makes them equally
ready to meet emergencies.
>Sad to say, but the Gold award has no requirements for this type of training.
Sure it does. You need to look closely at the current requirements.
I have, and it says "followship, leadership, citizenship and personal
fitness development" throughout.
> Until the Gold award encompasses the cumulative experiences of scouting and
>the level of training REQUIRED in Girl scouting becomes equitable with the
>training in Boy scouting then the Gold award can never be equivalent to the
>Rank of Eagle. And yes! I AM a senior leader advising girls towards Gold. That
>is how I know the requirements so well.
Dennis....you are comparing a bar of gold to an silver Eagle. Of
course, there will be differences in how the requirements are carried
out. But the requirements are there, and both include elements of the
* followship: In order to be an successful leader, one must know what
it is like to be a follower. This develops an emerging leader that
understands how it feels to be a member of a group and will color the
way that he or she makes decisions and carries out the decisions of
* leadership: Of course, looking and observing the others in
leadership roles, coupled with some leadership training and
experiences, makes a good leader better. Leaders are created,
developed and nurtured...they are not born.
* observance of diversity: Not just in acceptance of people different
than you, or in acceptance of ideas different than yours, but in the
way that life itself is made of diverse elements: night and day, rain
and sunshine, oyxgen and carbon dioxide. Each element has a drawback
and a plus to it. A successful person understands the diverse nature
of all around him or her, and will use this as a way to lead, follow
and make life confortable for themselves and others.
* observance of ethics: In acceptance of ideas, people, and the way
that life exists, one uses a set of ethical "rules". The Scouting
programs...both Boy and Girl....has a set called the Scout Law that
provides an even standard of "acceptable ethical behavior" which
meshes with most mainline religious and most personal beliefs. At
the same time, each person through the Scouting programs, develops
their OWN personal "ethical behavior" and "rules of conduct" which may
or may not include the Scouting rules learned and reinforced through
cooperative play and work with other groups outside of Scouting.
* outdoor exploration and physical fitness: One goes in hand with the
other...outdoor experiences gives boys and girls an appreciation for
the grand outdoors, strenghtens the mind and the spirit, and builds or
maintains the body in an acceptable level of physical conditioning.
In a nation whereby more than 74 percent of all kids are obese, this
can be the ONLY element in a child's life whereby he or she gets the
You will find elements of all of the above in the requirements for the
Eagle and the Gold Award, Dennis.
I know...I read *each of them* without comparing one to the other.
Settummanque, the blackeagle... (MAJ) Mike L. Walton (
co-Owner, Blackeagle Services ___)_
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