Re: Eagle Scout: National Issue
Settummanque, the blackeagle (waltoml@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU)
Thu, 6 Oct 1994 21:05:48 CST
hunteb <hunteb@SMTPGATE.LDS-AZ.LORAL.COM> writes:
>Perhaps on this issue of Eagle Advancement procedures, we could assemble all
>our concerns (with solid examples) and submit a joint letter to the National
>Advancement Committee. Afterall, we represent a large number of very active
>Scouters and Scouts. In so doing, we offer a very valuable service to National
>and the Scout movement in general.
>Though I am sure people from national, as well as local councils, are on Scouts
>L, our views do not have the same impact as a formal letter backed by our
>Any Comments or Volunteers?
First, since I've been here on this forum, I've been "summarizing" and
forwarding our combined notes about some issues that cannot be
answered to folks that I've known personally as a former National
volunteer and former Paraprofessional at the National office and some
other "strong and up-and-coming" Council Scout Executives whom turn
around and ask *their* bosses about. The effort has NOT been without
problems, and not without some of those professionals asked NOT to
return phone calls to me or answer my inquiries.
There are others on this forum that have been doing the same thing,
which has been prompting the National Office to demand that "such
inquiries will stop and that all of our communication is done through
the local Council offices in order to insure consistant communication"
(from what one Council Executive phoned me at work about). The
operative statement is to "not to answer questions from the field
unless it comes from/through a local Council office".
They do anyway, and on behalf of all of YOU, I thank them each time.
Yeah, this is really not going about it the "right and correct way",
but as we've seen in the past, getting answers to some of our
questions results in stonewalling, hiccups and outright misinformation
which, when we get it and tell our fellow volunteers and
professionals, results in yet NEW rules and "implementation
instructions" which are no better than what we've seeking in the
I *do* have to agree with the National Office, though...Scouts-L (and
for that matter, ALL of the electronic lists and forums out here)
don't reflect a GOOD cross-section of the BSA's adult leadership (not
yet, but Jon Eidson here; Danny Scheweidermann on Rec. Scouting, Pat
Skelly on AOL, and me everyplace...we're all working out it!!!)
Therefore, having us to "dictate policy" or even to "recommend it" is
always not a great idea (I do admit it is a LOT better than what has
been going on sometimes, though!!)!!
This is NOT to say that they won't listen/read our thoughts and
opinions on significant issues. It was THIS LIST that changed policy
in the way that Roundtable Staffs are registered and recieve training
awards (thanks to Kathie that brought the issue up!), policies in the
way that we do the "Scout Spirit" (thanks to many of those that have
"thrashed it out here" over the past three years), and recently, the
policy with the Explorer shirts and the green shoulder loops.
The summary should go to the Program Group Director at the National
Office, with copies to the Eagle Scout Service Director and the
director of the Boy Scout Division. Together, the two of them and
their staffs (the Program Group Director and the BS Division Director
are one and the same) will work with OTHER VOLUNTEERS to finalize the
"definative answer" to this issue.
Personally, I feel that we probably won't be able to find a suitable
answer to those questions that will "play in Peoria" (which the
National office lovingly refer to it's portability and effectiveness
in a significant number of local Councils). While we can come up with
many programs that will work in larger communities, it is important to
remember that many local Councils are STILL small-market Councils that
have a limited amount of peoplepower and finances and that what would
work in Louisville may NOT work in Owensboro or Jackson.
For the record, there are NO National professionals on the list as of
this morning. National has been very reluctant to allow their
professionals to even "review and observe" our list or any of the
other ones. When asked, we are given the standard "the information
flow comes from us to local Council to you. Doing it any other way
interferes with the reasoning behind having local Councils...that is,
to interpret and develop ways of implementing National programs and
techniques to you."
And in many ways, they are correct. In other ways, ways in which
these questions and others can be asked in an non-threating
enviornment, without *much* shouting, they are not correct and are
contributing to the "us-them" syndrome many of us associate with the
profession of Scouting. A good move has been made by many
Council-level and Regional-level Professionals to "get on here anyway"
and to tell folks upfront (as I've recommended to several here) that
there's a BROAD LINE between their obligations as a member of the
profession of Scouting and their adherance to the Scout Executive
Code; and answering questions, comments and frustration based on their
EXPERIENCE and PERSONAL BACKGROUND. I appluade their bravery and
their loyality to you, the volunteer and member of the movement and
wished that more would join them.
However, they, like me, know the limitation of their "membership" here
Bottom lines: one, please continue to "hash it out" here (and please
remember to READ THE ARCHIVES...some of this we've been over in the
past and it's like "walking over the same trail again"!!). *Somehow*,
those notes and concerns *you and I post here* find their ways into
the National (or one of the four Regional offices)...don't ask me
how *grinning* and *somehow* you and I read about it in _Scouting_ or
from our local Council offices. We get training which reflects some
things that we've talked about here *somehow*.
The process is NOT perfect. It's not even "by the book" or "through
channels". Your concerns ARE being heard, even if's by all of us
Finally, while I know that you've posted this here "for BSA Scouters". I
wanted to remind everyone that this is a YOUTH DISCUSSION LIST, and
the same things that apply to the BSA applies to the Girl Scouts of
the USA, the Boys' Clubs, Junior Acheivement and other groups in the
USA and elsewhere. While yeah, the vast majority of us are BSA Scouts
and Scouters (or someplace in the middle thereabouts), policy issues
that affect young girls and their adult leaders as well as those
issues which are "universal in nature" also get seen by those "with
some influnce" *somehow*. While this list cannot solve every national
issue or concern, it does serve as a good bellweather of ways that
perhaps those national organizations may LOOK and EXAMINE at to solve
them for the adults and in return for the youth we serve.
Sorry so long....I hope that I've given much comment on this topic,
some I am sure is not welcomed. I've got my BRAND NEW Asbestos-lined,
Mylar-enforced flame retarders today through Sears Roebuck...so, as
long as it's not a head shot, fire away!! *hehehehe*
Settummanque!@HEY! What's that statement? Once a professional...always?
Settummanque, the blackeagle... (MAJ) Mike L. Walton (
co-Owner, Blackeagle Services ___)_
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