Re: AFS Scouts
Settummanque, the blackeagle (waltoml@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU)
Wed, 7 Sep 1994 13:33:23 CST
"Hannes G. Hernler" <HERNLER@HSPT.TU-GRAZ.AC.AT> writes:
>"Settummanque, the blackeagle" <waltoml@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU> wrote:
>> There are two rules of thumb here. International Law says that
>> uniformed members of any nation (police, fire, military and scouts,
>> for example) are to stand at attention or in an erect position when
>> the anthem of any nation is being played and if possible, to face the
>> flag of that nation...........
>no kidding? Is there really international law concerning scout
>uniform? Do we or did BP want this? Scouts as a kind of governmental
>power like army or police?
Nope...the international law is one conerning UNIFORMED members of any
one nation (as in the "uniform of the participants of the Olympics",
the "uniform of the participants of scouting or guiding programs", as
in the "uniforms of the property or personal protection personnel of
each nation", etc. etc.). It is NOT a "international Scouting law";
Ian asked me to comment on it from a military officer point of view
and I found references to "international protocol law" which I've
saved from my days as a Aide-de-camp to a one-star general which
I didn't intend and I don't think that my posting was anything
comparing Scouting to the military, although as I've stated here
several times, the military-Scouting connection is there from the
start and continues even in today's times.
>ad "erect position": this makes me think of homo erectus who was
>kicked by homo sapiens and again by sapiens sapiens. Isn't it a
>scout's goal to look for the things behind? Are sapiens abusing
>ceremonies really necessary for scouting?
I didn't write the law....the law was written so that it would avoid
the things that I illustrated later on in that same posting; that was,
sitting instead of standing, as straight as possible instead of
slooping or slouching. For crying out loud, this is the SYMBOL of a
nation of PEOPLE (even in countries like Cuba, or North Korea, or even
Iran!) and should be respected as such. I again equated standing and
bowing ones head at a prayer even if it was rendered by a member of
the Church of Scientology. It is NOT the person you are
"respecting"...it is the principle of respect for all even if those
beliefs, policies and attitudes are NOT the same as you own.
This again, in American's Scouting program (and perhaps yours too)
goes back to the Scout Laws of being Courteous and Reverent.
>> ... while the Somilie (sp) anthem was
>> played, a long nine minute song which I understand has no real
>or it is a tune system that is unfamiliar to you like our's is to
The way I understand it, since I was not there, was that the "wail"
really had no tune which could be "hummed along" by the military
members in the the same way as other nation's songs. We can talk
offline about that, but it's not essential IMO to Ian's and (I forgot
the name of the guy that started this thread, but it's a good one!)'s
responses or my responses to them.
>> As Scouts, we need to be aware of what other nations constitute
>> "honoring their flag". In most cases, as Ian wrote, it is as simple
>> as what one would do in a religious setting: respect the right of
>> others to render respect for their state and not speaking nor moving
>> while the honor is being rendered.
>agreed! But it's still up to them to think about it!
As citizens of our own countries, we have our loyalites to our own
nation and that should never change, Scout or no. However, as a
member of a international organization (which even the BSA is a member
of), we shouldn't have to *think* about standing upright and facing
the flag or music of any other nation's program while participating in
Scouting programs or activities. It should come natural. As natural
as taking off your hat and bowing your head no matter whom is offering
the benediction or offering the prayer before eating dinner.
Settummanque, the blackeagle... (MAJ) Mike L. Walton (
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