Re: Are those knots relevant?
Settummanque, the blackeagle (waltoml@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU)
Mon, 25 Jul 1994 17:28:42 CST
Settummanque, the blackeagle <WKUVX2::WALTOML> writes:
>(We've been over this ground before, about two years back when we
>talked about the differences between the old khaki uniforms and the
>present tan ones. I decided to followup in this string because of two
>reasons: one, because I kinda started it with the description in
>answering a question; and more importantly, because it deserves a
>good answer from one person that wears many of the BSA's awards
>proudly on his old or new shirts.)
I needed to expand on some comments that I've made earlier with regard
to the BSA's uniforms. Many times, when I write a response, I try to
not only tell the BSA's side but also the Mike Walton side of things,
so that folks could understand the two and attempt to come in
agreement with one or the other. I think that somehow, while I was
sleeptyping (don't try this at home, folks!), some got the impression
that I was speaking for all of us on the list or the BSA. I was not.
In re-reading my comments, I should have placed a disclaimer at the
start of this section. This is that disclamer. I am speaking for
MYSELF and those that feel the same way I feel about the current cloth
tan uniform shirts; this is NOT the way that others feel nor is the
way (of course!) the BSA feels about it.
And YES, I do own THREE tan shirts, two of which are the poly/wool
blend I speak of here.
>Ian Ford <ianford@DIRCON.CO.UK> writes:
>>IMHO the issue with adult uniform is setting an example for the boys, so
>>the uniform should be correct. Personally I can't see the point in
>>wearing " antique " uniforms or outdated awards unless for a very special
>>occasion, e.g. a pageant or show to commemorate a special anniversary. By
>>all means keep them as souvenirs.
>Let me explain very succienctly why we "old timers"
Not ALL "old timers", just many more that the BSA realizes....
> wear the old
>uniforms with the old or current patches in the proper places: THE
>PRESENT UNIFORM SUCKS!! The old uniforms were confortable, roomy and
>functional. They also looked great when they were starched,
>dry-cleaned, or even ironed really well. They also displayed the
>colorful patches (even the red and white patches) well while still
>retaining much of the "outdoorsy" feel that symbolized Scouting.
>I can wear the old woolen shirts in the dead of cold, in the warmth of
>summer, and at nighttime and in all cases it's confortable to wear.
>The same can be said about the BSA's dark green Explorer shirts (when
>I had one that I could wear...at the present, I don't have a large
>shirt to wear and I'm still trying to find one).
Yes, a blatant ad for someone to trade or sell me a LARGE Explorer
shirt, long sleeved or short.
>And in ALL cases, ANYONE can tell that I am a Scouter or a Exploring
>leader....NOT a "park ranger" or a "security guard".
True story. When I took a group of Explorers to the Red River Gorge,
near Stanton, Kentucky several years back, I was stopped THREE times
by folks mistaking my tan shirt with the patches on it for the US
Forest Service ranger's shirt. Yes, above my right pocket in red are
the wording "Boy Scouts of America". But if you saw a ranger and a
Scouter from a distance, you really couldn't tell them apart from the
>I can't say that about the present tan shirts, which were designed
>more as "billboards" for the colorful new patches than it was for
>camping, hiking and the outdoors of Scouting.
I say this because the Supply Division Director said this at a All
Hands Meeting shortly after the new shirts were announced. "We want
every Scout to be a walking billboard, able to tell and SHOW his peers
what Scouting is about and to show off all of the great things that he
could get into. The uniform can be our most effective form of
advertisment for our program, IF WORN CORRECTLY." I liked what he
said, because it's true to the penny. Give a Scout a shirt with
barely nothing on it, and nobody cares. Put some colorful patches on
that light tan shirt, and watch out!
> I'm not as confortable
>in the shirts, which are made of a lighter wash-and-wear material than
>the older, thicker cotton or cotton/wool blends of the older shirts.
>Even the "leader's shirts" that are supposed to be "cool and
>confortable" are neither. Those shirts, by the way, are 65 percent
>polyester and 40 percent wool.
>There's really NOT a reasoning behind the shoulder loops, especially
>the gold and silver ones for those volunteers and professionals at the
>local District, Council, Area, Regional and National levels. If I'm a
>National leader, I wear a patch that identifies me as a National
>leader. I don't have to wear the gold shoulder loops AND the "national
>office patch". Likewise, if I am serving as a Council leader, I
>should be wearing a Council office patch and NOT the Silver shoulder
>loops that identifies me as a Council or District officeholder.
>Instead, I should be wearing the dark green loops IDing myself as a
More arguments are produced at the local Council level over those
silly shoulder loops than any other uniform device. The folks that
serve on the District level WANT to wear the silver loops but yet they
are primarily registered to a unit, and *should* wear the blue, red,
blaze (orange) or (kelly) green shoulder loops of their program. They
don't want to, and they end up wearing the silver ones at a meeting.
Someone calls them on it, they defend themselves by saying "but I AM a
District so-an-so", to which the "callie" returns "But your're
REGISTERED as a unit leader. Gimme those loops!". A fight breaks
out, both Scouters are swinging and other Scouters are coming between
them and both folks are deeply embarrased.
The Scouters that felt it was a honor for him or her to work with
others at that level, go back home, takes their shirt off, throws it
in the trash can and says "And they *all* can...."
We've lost a LOT of good Scouters because of something as petty as the
color of a shoulder loop!
>I guess that's the reason why the BSA decided to clamp down on those
>of us that hold National jobs and local Council jobs and state that
>"you should wear the shoulder loops of the PAID, REGISTERED position"
>instead of the "highest level that you serve as" as the previous
>policy was written.
>So, it's not just a desire to "go back to the future" that many of us
>wear the older shirts...it's a desire to look good, feel confortable
>and perhaps a little rememberance of what our Scoutmasters and other
>Scouters looked like with the older shirts on.
And perhaps to avoid contriversy when serving on a District or Council
committee while being a unit leader or assistant. After all, we've
never had this problem in the past...the patch told what position in
the movement you had and that's that. You can't wear TWO position
patches at the same time, so you get two shirts. Or three. Or five.
Or nine...you get the drift.
>As long as all of the insignia is in the right place, neither me nor
>the BSA cares which version a Scouter or Scout wears.
I hope that makes it clear where I stand on this and where the BSA
(and others that *do* like the present tan field shirts) stand.
I will wear the shirts and all of the other uniform items of the
current version, but excuse me if I scratch a little or have to wear
a teeshirt with the current shirts during the fall and winter.
Settummanque, the blackeagle... (MAJ) Mike L. Walton (
(h) 502-782-7992 (f) 502-781-7279 (w) 502-782-7467 |-=-|]
3201-D Cave Springs Avenue -- Greenwood, KY 42104-4439 -=====-
Internet: WALTOML@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU/America OnLine: KYBLKEAGLE@AOL.COM
"Not speaking for WKU......................but I do speak well!!"
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