Re: Al "knot"ted up
Settummanque, the blackeagle (waltoml@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU)
Fri, 22 Jul 1994 15:59:39 CST
>I've been out about a month, out of town and out of touch. Took me a week to
>wade through the Digested SCOUTS-L, and the threads were all fascinating.
> This thread is near and dear to my heart (correct uniforming), and I
>couldn't resist tossing my hat in the ring.
I thought you would, Randy! Great to have you back here!!
>I thought Mike's comments regarding local custom on limiting knots was quite
>interesting. Actually, if my reliable sources (souses?) are correct, the
>limitation to five knots was lifted in 1970, when a major revision in uniform
>and insignia practice in BSA was promulgated (the 1970 Uniform and Insignia
>Guide is the only one I _don't_ have for basically the past 40 years, and I
>recall when it came out that it took two errata sheets to correct).
>I think that the number of knots is strictly up to the wearer, provided that
>duplicate knots are not worn. IMHBCO, BSA could have avoided the entire Cub
>Leader Recognition knot series (six knots last count) if they would have
>stuck to the earlier practice of miniature devices on the Scouter's Key and
>Training Award knots and medals (practice discontinued in 1988 except for
>"grandfathered" awards), rather than the pendants, (now I'm gonna hear from
>every Cub leader out there who has earned the "new" awards, but that's OK
>too). The knots are pretty colorful, but someone who has put in enough time
>to earn all the Cub Leader program awards looks like some military general
The reason why the Cub Scout Division abandoned the age-old Scouters'
Training Award and Scouters' Key awards is because since the Cub
Scouting program has expanded so much over the years, that not only do
Den Leaders and Assistants and Den Leader Coaches needed to be
recognized, but also those WEBELOS Den Leaders and Assistants, the
Tiger Cub Organizers, and even those on the Pack Committee and those
parents that help out but don't or can't serve as primary leaders. I
agree that they may have went overboard with trying to recognize
EVERYONE, but they are hoping that the increased recognition would
spill over into new Boy Scout and Varsity leaders later on.
(for those not familiar, the BSA for many years had a set of four
training awards for Cub Scouting leaders, each with a medal and a
square knot. The Cubmaster Key was earned like the Scoutmaster Key.
The Den Leader Training Award is for the Den Leaders and Assistants,
no matter what age group; the Den Leader Coach Training Award was only
given to those Den Leader Coaches; and the Scouter's Training Award
could be earned by all other Cub Scouters, no matter if they are in a
unit or a part of the District's Roundtable staff. In 1986 or 88 (I
forget now), the Cub Scout Program Division successfully twisted the
arms of the Uniform and Insignia Committee and created NEW
pendant-type awards instead of medals (because of a lot of objections
by female Cub leaders) and new separate awards for the WEBELOS Den
Leaders and assistants, Tiger Cub Coaches, and Pack Committee
members and registered parents at the District and unit levels.)
>38??? Discounting local overhand knots, the only knots not in the 32 shown in
>the Scoutmaster's Handbook to my knowledge, are the Tiger Coach Award and the
>James West Fellowship. Could you elaborate, Mike?
There are (in my copy of the Scoutmaster's Handbook) 29 square knots
illustrated in color on pages 244 and 245. Additionally, there is now
a square knot for the Hornaday Award (looks like the Eagle except the
red parts are green); the Tiger Coach Award (black and orange); the
James West Fellowship (I forgot what it looked like); the Ranger Award
(brown knot on khaki); the Ace Award (dark blue and red ropes on khahi
or sky blue); the early version of the Silver Award (red and gold
ropes on dark blue background); the previous version of the Cub
Scouter Award which was called the Den Leader Coach Training Award
(we had an earlier "trivial trivia" in which the question was raised
"which square knot is the ONLY one which can be worn TWICE to
represent TWO DISTINCTIVELY DIFFERENT AWARDS?", which the answer was
the Cub Scouter Award (the present use) and the Den Leader Coach Award
(the older one); and the Youth Leadership in America Award (which
presently is the top silver bar with the lettering "Leadership").
Now, in recounting....I come up with 37 (oops! Never was good with the
math! Sorry. There are 37 presently unless I missed one someplace).
>It still goes back to what is in good taste. Some of us who have been in the
>program since the dark ages like to be technically correct "christmas trees",
>while others like to go the minimalist route. Either one is OK by me, if the
>insignia are correctly worn.
(deletion on personal uniforming options...)
>Lest some of you take issue with my wearing obsolete uniforming (khaki
>shirts) & insignia (pre-fdl OA flaps & Project SOAR pp), remember: once
>legal, always legal, unless specifically proscribed in the Insignia Control
Settummanque, the blackeagle... (MAJ) Mike L. Walton (
(h) 502-782-7992 (f) 502-781-7279 (w) 502-782-7467 |-=-|]
3201-D Cave Springs Avenue -- Greenwood, KY 42104-4439 -=====-
Internet: WALTOML@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU/America OnLine: KYBLKEAGLE@AOL.COM
"Not speaking for WKU......................but I do speak well!!"
Terry Howerton Sakima Group, Inc. SCOUTER Magazine Kansas City