Re: First of Many: Internet Scouter "OA Lodge Flap"
Settummanque, the blackeagle (waltoml@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU)
Tue, 21 Jun 1994 14:15:52 EDT
Robert Craig <rcraig@LIBRARY.CARLETON.CA> writes:
>> Scouters worldwide have been looking for something which would
>> recognize their "membership" in the "electronic global community"
>> of Scouting. Over the past four years, there has been several
>> attempts at creating clubs, groups and newsletters which would be
>> sent to those members. As far as we know, all of those attempts have
>> been stalled due to time constraints or due to the inabilities to
>> understand the nature of Scouting in places outside of the United
>You make a statement like this and then:
>> While we in the USA love patches and insignia, those outside of the
>> Boy Scouts of America and the Girl Scouts of the USA do not place a
>> value on a cloth patch and would rather have something which could be
>> worn or attached during special times.
>You make a statement like above. How can you generalize about other
>countries' preferences? but then
Because, Bob, we have read and listened to Scouters from OTHER nations
other than Canada and the United States. Most countries would rather
have a neckerchief, or a hat or a pin or medallion which will emphaize
their "membership" because in their nations, they don't have a
specific "uniform" with "special places for special patches".
Others wanted something that they could wear in more informal
settings, like during camp or play. Still others wanted items which
could ONLY be understood by those OTHER "electronic scouters", like
mouse pads or special screen savers. Blackeagle Services has been
working on several of those things over the past two years, and
finally we've got to a point where Jess and I could say "let's stop
talking about it...and start doing it! Folks are asking for it, and
now's the time to do it! "
>> The first of such items which Blackeagle Services will develop is a
>> special Internet Lodge patch to commemorate this summer's National
>> Order of the Arrow Conference (NOAC), which will take place in July
>> of this year. The design, shaped like the traditional Order of the
>> Arrow "lodge flap", has special designs which identify the Scouter
>> as an "internet Scouter".
>Why can't a "universal" (ie not attached to a specific event) Internet
>Scouter badge be created. Sure it won't be recognized by ANY Scouting
>Association (without going through processes), but at least everyone
>could have it and not feel excluded. Someone suggested a simple
>badge with "Internet Scouts" with the 'o' of Scouts containing the
>World Scouting Logo.
Because, Bob, as you mentioned later on, the "world Scouting logo" is
a copy-protected item. We've played around with several designs
before coming up with the present one. We've even tried to use a
"mascot" as to prevent "appearance" of favoring one nation's Scouting
program over another. We've finally settled on one design and it will
become the central design in MOST of the items.
Again, "Internet Scouts" suggest something which presently does not
exist...an "organization" of sorts with "members". We presently don't
intend on going into that direction. However, next week, we will be
looking at perhaps supporting the efforts of several from Rec.Scouting
(and I beleive it includes you) that are "seeking" an international
"internet" group or club.
I assure you, Bob, while the first patch design is for a SPECIFIC
event, subsequent patches and general items will have a universal
Scouting "theme" and will be available to Scouters worldwide (and will
be instantly recognizable by Scouts and Scouters wearing the items).
All of this started because US Scouts and Scouters wanted to have
something in time to show their membership in an electronic forum
while attending the BSA's National Order of the Arrow Conference.
There will be LOTS of times for other items which will be more
"foriegn-specific" that BSA Scouters won't "buy".
>> One significant feature of these offerings is that Blackeagle Services
>> will send a quarter-percent (25%) of all proceeds to the World
>quarter percent of all proceeds = .25%
>one quarter of all proceeds = 25%
25 percent. As I've explained, this comes to .88 from a $7.50
purchase price, once expenses are realized. We are NOT looking to
make a huge amount of money from this venture...if we do, it will be
only because you Scouters like what we offer and support us long and
in massive quantities. The MOST IMPORTANT PART here is that WE as a
group decide to not just talk about supporting worldwide
Scouting...that we DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT to show our support. I feel
that this is ONE way (not the ONLY way, not the BEST way, but ONE way)
that this could be accomphished.
>> Friendship Fund. This fund, administered by the World Association of
>> Scouting Movements,
>World Organization of the Scout Movement?
>(there is no organization that I know of called the World Association of
World Organization of the Scout Movement is the correct and proper
name of the international "umbrella group" representing Scouting
programs worldwide. My error there...thanks for correcting me!
>> There will be NO PUBLIC OFFERINGS of ANY KIND directly through the
>> Internet. These messages will be sent to all three lists twice a
>> month in order to hold down bandwith and in order to provide Scouters
>> which have recently subscribed an opportunity to participate in these
>> offers. Subsequent messages will only announce and describe the
>> item(s) and give the Internet address in which to send inquiries or
>> advance orders. Orders will be limited to 20 PER INTERNET ADDRESS in
>> order to hold down "insignia wholesalers". The basic design will be
>> trademark-protected in the United States, but other than that, there
>> will be *many* "knockoffs" as this idea catches on.
>your idea itself is a knockoff of the "Fidonet patch". Who/what/where
>did you obtain permission to "be" the holder of the internet? As well,
>it may be difficult to trademark items (such as the word Scout, the world
>Logo) that are already "copyrighted".
The patch, and other items, Bob, will NOT have ANY registered
trademarks representing Scouting. That's one of the ways that these
items will be recognizibly DIFFERENT than ANY "Scouting" association
items. While the name "Scout" is held by the BSA, the word "SCOUTER"
is NOT, and that's what we are going to be using..."internet scouter".
We are NOT using the international Scouting logo as part of the
patches or other items...you will have to see the design to understand
it. I think that even YOU would be appreciative of this effort (and
it IS an effort.) As far as being the "holder of the internet", we
are not, and Jess and I have spend quite a long time researching
various Internet "logos" and avoiding all of them in the design of
these items (and believe me, Bob...it was REALLY hard to do so!)
All of the "internet scouter" items will be trademarked as well as the
phrase "internet scouter".
>> If you feel that you or someone you know would be interested in what
>> Blackeagle Services could offer, please send your e-mail and s-mail
>> ("slow mail", regular postal) address to the below address. Please
>> allow 72 hours for confirmation of your e-mail message, since the
>> account is also used for personal mail and the "bin" in which
>> inquiries are filed will be emptied once a day.
>Yes, I am interested, however, (maybe I missed them) I wonder about
>the issues presented above and how you can generalize members of
>Scouting from around the world?
>In furthering your idea for an "internet patch" have you considered
>approaching the World Organization of the Scout Movement to create or
>"adopt" an idea for such a patch?
The problems, from the aspect of the WOSM, is that some national
Scouting organizations (the BSA for one large one), has their OWN
"International Participation" insignia which COULD be used by members
of their nation's Scouting group in recognition of any "international
effort". This is a private attempt at allowing those WHOM WISH TO DO
SO, to purchase and wear special items which (we feel) would be
recognizable to others at various national and international Scouting
events and activities.
>Look Mike, I know my words probably sound quite offensive. I have had
>an annoying time on rec.scouting, having been labelled and harassed by
>people who claim to be members of Scouting (and BSA members at that!).
Nope, Bob. Your words sound to me like a person concerned with how
this would affect your participation as well as trying to find out
more information about what we are offering and what efforts we've
made to make them as "generic" as possible yet "unique" as possible.
Aside from the Rec.Scouting issues (and we can take that to
Rec.Scouting, if you prefer), the main point in doing what we chose to
do here is to allow those Scouters that WISH TO DO SO, to obtain
things which they can trade (or wear at their OWN RISK) to various
National and International Scouting events, and to have someone else
to stop them and say "Internet Scouter. Hey! I'm Horst Lamm! I'm also
on the Internet", and to offer their left hand of brotherhood to them.
That's all. No big agenda. No big "massive amounts of things." We
are doing this in a SMALL way, and letting those Scouters that wish to
know more to "direct" which way we should be doing this.
>As a member of Scouting from outside the US, I am getting more and more
>disgusted with the generalizations that are made from members of the BSA
>and the opinion that the BSA (you even said this) is a superior Scouting
>program to the world.
As you saw that, I said that in a reply in *quotation marks* because someone
else mentioned this "erronous fact" on Rec.Scouting. Those whom know
me, Bob, know that I am truly an "International Scouter", and view the
BSA's program no better or worse than those of the DPSG or any other
Scouting association or group.
Glad that you corrected my error and good that you replied!
Settummanque, the blackeagle... (MAJ) Mike L. Walton (
(h) 502-782-7992 (f) 502-781-7279 (w) 502-782-7467 |-=-|]
3201-D Cave Springs Avenue -- Greenwood, KY 42104-4439 -=====-
Internet: WALTOML@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU/America OnLine: KYBLKEAGLE@AOL.COM
"Not speaking for WKU......................but I do speak well!!"
Terry Howerton Sakima Group, Inc. SCOUTER Magazine Kansas City