An interesting topic from rec.scouting
Gino Lucrezi (lucrezi@DSIAQ1.ING.UNIVAQ.IT)
Mon, 11 Apr 1994 00:12:04 +0100
I noticed this interesting thread on rec.scouting, and I would have
liked some comments by the readers of this list (except for those who
already read rec.scouting).
The concept of a paid scouter is quite alien to me, we don't have any
in Italy (there are maybe 40 paid scouts in all Italy, most of them
doing clerical work either at the Central Offices or at the Regions).
BTW, I edited away most quotes.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun Mar 27 12:15:32 EST 1994
From: James Lindley <JML12@psuvm.psu.edu>
 Paid Scout Pack/Troop Leaders in NYC
The April 4th issue of Business Week has an article on volunteerism
titled "Good Help Really is Hard to Find" that says the council serving
the New York City area is paying college students $8 an hour to lead
troops. Is the NYC area really that hard up for volunteer leaders or
are the troops located where most sane adults fear to tread?
Anyone on the net have any more factual information on this or, better yet,
first hand experience?
On a related tangent, are there any rules that would prohibit a chartering
organization from paying pack/troop leadership, thereby establishing a
employer/employee relationship? Of course, most chartering organizations
wouldn't spend the money but it opens up some interesting possibilities.
From: hayesj@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (J Michael Hayes)
 Re: Paid Scout Pack/Troop Leaders in NYC
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun Mar 27 16:10:52 EST 1994
Our area has a paid SM for a troop for migrant
worker's kids. He's given an awful lot of
leeway in following child protection guidelines
(none of the parents help). He's bilingual
and conducts most troop business in Spanish.
I don't know who the sponsoring organization
is (the council?) but he is paid and the troop
equiped out of a grant for the purpose.
He is a hard worker, but like many Scouting
professionals, was never in Scouts, and has
had a minimal of the training required of
volunteers. If I were bilingual I might try
volunteering to help him for a year or
two, but he doesn't make any attempt to
get along with or associate with volunteers.
From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Joe Barone)
 Re: Paid Scout Pack/Troop Leaders in NYC
Organization: The World Bank
Date: Mon Mar 28 12:55:43 EST 1994
In article 121532JML12@psuvm.psu.edu, James Lindley <JML12@psuvm.psu.edu> ()
>The April 4th issue of Business Week has an article on volunteerism
>titled "Good Help Really is Hard to Find" that says the council serving
There was an article about this in the NYTimes late Jan..early Feb. As
a former Scoutmaster in NYC (Troop 229), I have very mixed feelings on
The idea is to get college kids to run after-school troops in areas that
lack adults willing to run a troop. They are trained and paid out of a special
fund that has been set-up for a few years ago. I do not remember how much
funding the Greater New York Council (GNYC) gave to each troop
(paying for uniforms, books, etc.).
One of my reasons for my mixed feelings was that throughout my college years,
I served as ASM, involved in my Lodge, etc.
From: email@example.com (Mark A. Fogel)
 Re: Paid Scout Pack/Troop Leaders in NYC
Date: Mon Mar 28 16:21:21 EST 1994
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
In article <1994Mar28.firstname.lastname@example.org> email@example.com (Joe
>From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Joe Barone)
>Subject: Re: Paid Scout Pack/Troop Leaders in NYC
>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 17:55:43 GMT
>There was an article about this in the NYTimes late Jan..early Feb. As
>a former Scoutmaster in NYC (Troop 229), I have very mixed feelings on
I believe this is part of a separate program "in school services" that is run
in the NYC public school system. Girls are also eligible to participate in
To my knowledge, none of the regular troops or packs in the GNYC Councils are
led by paid leaders. There is enough friction between Volunteers and paid
staff; I can imagine the problems between paid and unpaid leaders.
Mark Fogel, Cubmaster Pack 613, Dan Beard District GNYC Councils (Queens)
Mark Alan Fogel email@example.com
"Imagine if horse racing had no horses, thousands of people could
go to the track each day & save millions of dollars." Julius H. Marx
 Re: Paid Scout Pack/Troop Leaders in NYC\
From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Settummanque, the blackeagle)
Date: Wed Mar 30 17:13:53 EST 1994
Organization: Blackeagle Serv./WKU
James Lindley <JML12@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> The April 4th issue of Business Week has an article on volunteerism
> titled "Good Help Really is Hard to Find" that says the council serving
> the New York City area is paying college students $8 an hour to lead
> troops. Is the NYC area really that hard up for volunteer leaders or
> are the troops located where most sane adults fear to tread?
> Anyone on the net have any more factual information on this or, better yet,
> first hand experience?
Yes, I have factural information that the Brooklyn, Queens and the New
York City Councils (all sub-Councils of the Greater New York City
Council) *have* employed 71 young men and women as "Paraprofessionals"
(actually, they are being employed as Neighborhood Staff Members,
since the BSA technically cannot hire any more "paraprofessionals"
because of a National Council decision in 1988) to serve under-served
neighborhoods in those Councils. They are being supervised by two
fulltime District Directors and two "borrowed professionals" from
Chase Manhattan Corporation and a borrowed military sergeant from Fort
Totten, whom are serving as "District Manpower Supervisors" (they
cannot serve as "commissioned Scouters" because they are being loaned
to the BSA).
And yes, the salaries range from $6.44 a hour to $8.15 a hour,
depending on experience and longetivity. Still, even with that, there
are STILL lots of units without Scouting leadership and the
professionals are having to raise monies during the day and run Troop
and Pack meetings at night, every night (the reason why they are
trying to get volunteers to do this...).
The project is being funded by a variety of grants, private bequests,
and United Way (yeah, United Way!) monies. It is for a two year
This IS NOT a new trend...the BSA has been employing young people (I
was one of them) under different federal and private programs to make
Scouting available to all youth for YEARS. I served as a
Paraprofessional Executive from 1978 to 1981 in a number of different
local Councils under a grant from the federal government. In this
grant, local organizations were encouraged to hire minority and female
workers to benefit community-based programs (the Comprehensive
Employment and Training Act, or CETA. You probably know it presently
as JTPA, Job Training and Placement Agency...the same program,
different emphasis). In larger Councils, set-aside monies are
frequenly used to pay the expenses of volunteer workers that in
exchange for their services, they get a part of their federal student
loan forgave or defferred. In smaller local Councils, volunteers whom
commit to service in a local Council can have similiar loan
(and before someone comes on here and says "See...that's ONE thing tha
the BSA gets from the federal government, therefore.....", the SAME
thing goes on in innercity Girl Scouting, Junior Achievement, and
other programs as well...including several churches and synagogues).
> On a related tangent, are there any rules that would prohibit a chartering
> organization from paying pack/troop leadership, thereby establishing a
> employer/employee relationship? Of course, most chartering organizations
> wouldn't spend the money but it opens up some interesting possibilities.
Nope. Some chartered partners DO pay the expenses and perhaps a
*small* salary for volunteers to work with Scouting...local city
parks and recreation facilities do, for one...larger military
installations pay someone to manage the Scouting programs on their
bases (I did that, as well..it was my FIRST paying job!)...so there's
not nothing against it.
But, as I remind everyone anytime I talk about my professional
service, I didn't get rich doing it...as a matter of fact, I was more
in debt due to wanting to do my best in the job than I made in the
little salary ($225 every two weeks, if you *must* know, for
starters...at the end, because I was the ONLY one left, I made $374
every two weeks). I also had to "save my employment" and raise SME
monies equal to 90 percent of my yearly salary (even though the
federal government paid 60 percent of it!).
Good question...glad you asked them!
Settummanque!@HEY! As you can see, our system is back up! Yea Hunter!
Settummanque, the blackeagle... (MAJ) Mike L. Walton (
(h) 502-782-7992 (f) 502-781-7279 (w) 502-782-7467 |-=-|]
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Gino Lucrezi @ Universita` "V. Rivera" - L'Aquila - Italy
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