Re: Tiger Cubs
Rick Clements (rickcl@POGO.WV.TEK.COM)
Fri, 5 Nov 1993 14:16:17 PST
From: Don Izard <IZARD%UBVM.BITNET@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
} FROM recent past experience, I must agree with Kathie 100 percent
} on the point that OVERDOING the Tiger program, to resemble JUNIOR
} CUBS, or to make the WEBELOS - 'little scouts', is KILLING
} retention and cross over into scouting. If a Kid has DONE allt
} the FUN stuff by the time he is 10, to include LONG term camping
} etc., there is NOTHING LEFT to hold his interrest!
Being an Asst. Webelos den leader for 2nd year Webelos, I am looking at
how to keep boys interested though the Webelos program. If they drop
out of the Webelos program, they won't show up as boys who drop out of
Scouts in their first year. But, they still aren't in the program.
Last year's second year Webelos, did a lot of crafts and earned all the
activity pins. But, there were only three left by the end of Webelos.
Our boys were getting tired for crafts. So, we put less emphasis on
advancement and more on outdoor activites. My son was one of the boys
that was getting bored. He had noticed that the Girl Scouts start
camping younger than the Boy Scouts do. He wasn't ready or interested
in backpacking with his older sister, but resident camp did keep him
interested in the program.
Four boys from our den went to resident camp. This is a council
sponcered camp. It differs from Scout camp in serveral ways (they
aren't under canvas and the activites have been scaled back).
IMHO, If the boy are getting bored with Scouts, we should be looking at
adding more opportunity to Scouts instead of watering down Webelos.
From: "Lorne A. Dudley" <DUDLEY2@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
>My number one objective is the same as yours - the best interests
>of our youth members. I guess we disagree on the approach -
>"bottom up" or "top down" management in a volunteer organization.
}I'm always nervous when "chapter and verse" is quoted from a
}document. Around our way, individual groups are as successful
}as the individual commitment and approach of the adult volunteers,
}not by strict interpretation of regulations.
Our group at work reciently went though a team build program. The
problem we had was some felt there were too many rules while others
felt there were too few. (I'm sure others have seen that discussion in
relation to Scouts.) While I was a bothered a little by her tone, I
realize that Kathy is a more rule oriented person than I am.
I notice something else, she was quoting facts that I didn't have. I
also noticed that she was talking about optimizing the number of boys
who stay in the troop while most [Cub] Scouters are worried about
retain boys though the Cub Scout years. As I mentioned before, if we
loose the boy in Cubs, he isn't a Scout even though he didn't drop soon
after joining the troop. On the other side of the coin, I can see that
we [Cub Scouter] my be guilty of local optimization (our packs) over
global optimization (the entire Scouting program).
A few comments for our non-BSA readers. BSA tends to have more top
down rules than other Scouts. While many counties have a strong group
(Cub, Scout, Venture and Rover units under a common committee), BSA
doesn't. Most of our packs and troops are seperate. Some of Kathy's
comments are because she is trying to provide some of that commonality
from the council level.
From: Vicki Andros <KAVLA%ASUACAD.BITNET@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
}I think BSA looses scouts for many reasons. Certainly boredom is one reason.
}The boredom could be from lack of a good program as well as from 'I've already
}done that'. Also, other activities take boys attention - sports, etc.
I agree. If we water down Cub Scouts so the boys won't be bored when
they become Scouts, we will probably loose them to sports. I think that
troops need a strong Venterer patrol(s). These are partrols that have
the more experienced boys and can do more chalanging things. I can see
the boys not wanting to do the same things they did as Cubs, but winter
tent camping, backpacking, canoe trips, bicycle trips and low impact
camping are things that Cub Scouts don't do.
I saw a couple people say they would thing twice about posting here
again. I hope you do post again. There is a lot of good information in
your postings. In any discussion, if you hit someone's hot button, you
will get more response than you counted on. But, I hope people don't
think they are doing a poor job because someone disagrees with them.
For example, I disagreed with both Kathy and Don in this posting, but I
think they have both had a positive effect on Scouting. I know I will
continue to use ideas I get from their postings.
Rick.Clements@tek.com Asst. Webelos Leader, Pack 225, Aloha, OR USA
Terry Howerton Sakima Group, Inc. SCOUTER Magazine Kansas City