QUALITY UNIT AWARD ANSWERS (and questions)
Settummanque, the blackeagle (WALTOML@WKUVX1.BITNET)
Fri, 3 Sep 1993 18:50:39 CDT
"Settummanque, the blackeagle" (Hey, that's ME!!) wrote:
> Jim's statement about not having a published source for this
>information has prompted me to check around and see if I can find
>sources (local, regional, national) referencing the wearing of the
>Quality Unit Award.
>Please correct me if I am wrong, but there seem to be six issues that
>we've been going around and around with; these will be the direct
>questions I will ask the National Uniform and Insignia director, the
>Editorial Director and the Council Support Division about:
The Editorial Director was out for Labor Day. Robert Peterson, the BSA's
Uniform and Insignia Director ( U>), stated some answers; but the most useful
BOTH WAYS around was from Conrad Frueham, the National Director of Council
Support ( C>), (and the editor of the Commissioner Update newsletter which
I'm *sure* will have these questions and *the answers* to them within shortly
Again, the BEST source for ALL answers to questions like this is the local
Council. Each Council can set it's own localized policies to run in tandem
with the National program. But....the questions could NOT be answered by them,
either...so here goes...
>1. "Who is eligible to wear the Quality Unit Award? Common sense
>says Cubs, Scouts, and Explorers and their adult leadership. There
>were two questions about whether the Unit Committee, the Commissioner
>assigned *directly* to the unit (as in Troop Commissioner, Pack
>Commissioner and NOT Unit Commisssioner, which has overlook over
>SEVERAL units), and the Chartered Organizational Representative can
>also wear the QU patches."
U> "the guiding principle for the award is that it is based on the UNIT, and
not on the individual members....therefore, ONLY those unit members should
be wearing the award. I don't have any problem with those that are associated
with the UNIT wearing the award except that COMMISSIONERS (even Troop and
Pack Commissioners) DON'T. The Commissioner is registered with the Council."
C> "Simple. Leaders and youth registered with the UNIT should wear them.
Everone else don't"
>2. "Once your unit has earned, say, the 1992, Quality Unit award, is
>is allowable to have NEW members of that unit and those transferred in
>to *also* wear the QU award for 1992, even though they were NOT
>members of the unit during the unit's 1992 chartered year?"
U> "Yes. You can equate the Quality Unit Awards to that of military units.
When a person joins a military unit, and that unit has been recognized, all
members of that unit wear the unit citiation. Same here."
C> "Of course. The recognition is to the unit, not the individual".
>3. "Also in that same vein, do Cub Scouts that have earned the QU
>award in the same year (using again 1992 as an example) wear the QU
>patch while a member of a Troop which is ALSO QU qualified? Or do
>they take it off until the Troop qualifies?"
(both) "Yes." (there was a long discussion with the Insignia folks on
what insignia gets to be "transferred" to the Boy Scout uniform, all of which
I already know).
>4. "The unit earned the Quality Unit Award in 1990. Since that time,
>the unit has NOT earned another QU award (don't ask why...they
>didn't). Who wears the QU patches...those that were on the charter at
>the time of the earning of the award, or ALL subsequent members of the
>unit until the unit earns a 1992 or 1993 award? If the latter, how
>can units get older versions of the Quality Unit Awards, since most
>local Councils place them in their "get rid of me" boxes at a reduced
>price after two years?"
U> "If the unit can still find the old patches, they should get everyone to
wear it...but personally, I would be embarrassed to wear a 1990 Quality Unit
C> "The unit should forget about the past and concentrate on the present.
I would not wear anything that's not current."
>5. "Is there ANY WAY that MORE THAN ONE QU Award may be worn by a
>Scout, unit Scouter or Council Scouter (this assumes that the local
>Council or the Scouter's District is a Quality District or Council) AT
>THE SAME TIME?"
(WOW!! Did *I* uncover something or WHAT?? Both gentlemen were UNAWARE that
there exists emblems which carry National BSA stock numbers for the Quality
District, Council and Region awards. Conrad asked me to give him the stock
numbers, which I again supplied once I found them again (they were posted on
the last large posting I did on this subject and here they are again:
The Council and Regional numbers are "unlisted" (in other words, you need to
have a LOT more "uumpht" than me to get them!) The District numbers are:
92 #00240 93 #00246
Therefore this question was tabled until both can find out about the OTHER
patches...both also referenced the Insignia Guide to get the line about
"...only ONE such patch may be worn at any time". Both again stated that the
Council IMPLEMENTATION booklet for the Quality Unit Award (BSA #14-915D)
has the answers to those questions that they answered.
When I replied that "I've seen the book, and it doesn't answer those questions,
Conrad was willing to write the questions down; my friend Bob was a little
defensive (since he helped write the thing in the first place!!). )
>6. "Where can unit/District/Council Scouters get a hard-copied answer
>to these questions (other than through this forum) that they can share
>with others that are having these same questions and quite frankly,
>are *not* getting an responsive answer (and "Do with it how you want
>to", is in *my opinion only*, NOT an "responsive answer", nor one
>which anyone gave thought to answering...but it IS the answer that we
>collectively and individually are getting from our local Council
Again, both National Scouters emphasized that the local Council has much say
in how to implement the program and that they weren't going to publish a
long listing of "dos and don'ts" because of that. So, there WILL NOT BE
A "PUBLISHED ITEM". Conrad did admit that the questions are common enough
("If you're getting so many questions, then it must be on the minds of
many!") to warrant placing the questions and his answers in the Commissioners'
Update (a publication that goes to all District and Council Commissioners and
is intended to be shared with their staffs).
And Bob again stated that "You should be asking your local Councils these
questions, because they're the ones that has this guide!"
Jim Sleezer added one other question:
>Mike, add question 7 -- If a person is in a unit that earns the award
>and the person contributes to earning the award) but transfers to a new unit
>that has not earned the award, can he/she continue to wear the award?
>i.e., My troop earned the award in 1992 but we moved to a new town and
>transfered to a non-QU troop. I helped earn that award, can I wear it?
U> "No. The award is ONLY for the unit that is on the left sleeve. If he
wants to still wear it, there's the right pocket for temporary patches or the
back side of the Merit Badge sash for Scouts."
(A side note to Jon Eidson: Jon, if you could be so kind to send Conrad a
short summary of what the list is about, and how to access it from Arlington,
I think that he would appreciate it. He seemed really interested in knowing
how many local Councils are represented here (I told him my estimate is about
50, including some of the nation's largest..Indianopolis, LA, Chicago, Dallas,
Louisville, St. Louis, Tuscon, Kansas City was the ones off the top of my
head.... He's at the National Office, SUM 212).
To summarize this:
The Quality Unit Award is based on the performance of the UNIT over the
standards it set for itself over the past year. ALL members of the unit
receive the award, including those that transfer in or graduate into the unit.
The award is designed for wear ONE AT A TIME on the right shoulder, position
three (below the Patrol Medallion) by those adult and youth members registered
with the unit. Once a member leaves the unit, the Quality Unit patch is
removed UNLESS the gaining unit is ALSO a Quality Unit in that same year.
If the unit is NOT a Quality Unit, the patch is to be removed or worn as a
temporary patch or insignia on the right pocket at the wearer's
discretion. There are no sources for patches pre-91. There *are* emblems also
available for members of Quality Councils and Districts. AS FAR AS IT CAN
BE DETERMINED, the policy which is written in the BSA Insignia Guide is the
policy concerning wearing both Council/District awards and Unit award...that
is, ONLY ONE OR THE OTHER MAY BE WORN...NOT BOTH.
Finally, the documentation that (*is supposed to, but don't really*) answer
those questions are found in the local Council, BSA #14-915D, called
"IMPLEMENTING THE QUALITY UNIT AWARD PROGRAM". All local Councils have a
copy, which has guides, charts and other materials to answer those questions
above (*it don't, believe me*).
NOW, I believe that we have the most definative answers to these questions
and related ones....I am sorry that it's taken so long to get the current
thinking on this program, and as you can see from the summary as well as from
the discussion, that we've ALL been told so *many* things about this program
that it's hard to find out for the Scout what's the policy.
Personally, I feel that *somebody* needs to sit down and write out how the
wearing of the patches works...the way the program works, we all know about.
What concerns us more than anything else is the fact that nobody is willing
to tell us how the award program works, except to tell us that we all shouldn't
be "Christmas Trees on the sleeves".
(and that don't work, because as you and both know and as Bob told me, there's
STILL some silly folks out there that think that "once you've earned something,
it stays on that shirt forever!" That WAS the thought processes when we only
had say, 100 patches total in all three programs that could be placed on the
shirts. Today, *just* the Boy Scouting stuff is over 100, and that don't
include the local Council items!)
My personal thanks to both men for listening to me this morning as I woke up to
get our answers...and to all of you that posted those questions to the list.
Hey...while I'm on a tangent here....please, don't be bashful about sending
your questions to the list....some of our most livier, enthused, and yeah,
heart-rendering discussions have come because someone posted a note here that
makes us all do own in-house research, talk to other Scouters/youth folk about,
and reply to with as much gusto as we can give it. So, please keep up the
questions...NONE of us are "experts" in this game, and only a couple of us
have turned "semi-pro" or "pro" in the play.
We ALL do it for that kid out there...see him or her???? *pointing*
Mike L. Walton
( Settummanque, the blackeagle... ) )
( (MAJ) Mike L. Walton (among other "endearing" names) ( )
( AIS/MR Recreation/Leisure Specialist, Lifeskills Inc. ___)_ )
( Phone 502-782-7992 (home) 502-842-2274 (office) |-=-|] )
( 3201-D Cave Springs Avenue -- Greenwood, KY 42104-4439 -------- )
( WALTOML@WKUVX1 / "No such thing as strong coffee, only weak people" )
( KYBLKEAGLE@AOL.COM (America Online) / (available Scouting speaker) )
( "I don't speak for Lifeskills, Inc. or WKU...but man, do I speak!!!!" )
Terry Howerton Sakima Group, Inc. SCOUTER Magazine Kansas City