Re: velcro for Don
Kathie Cerveny (kathie@DELTA.EECS.NWU.EDU)
Fri, 26 Mar 1993 10:18:20 CST
Good Morning Nathan,
Your questions w/answers:
> 1. Completing Scoutmastership Fundamentals does not qualify me to wear
> the Trained patch with my OA Chapter Advisor patch?
--Correct. Scoutmastership Fundamentals is basic training for Boy Scout troop
"Trained Leader emblem, no. 280, is available for all leaders who have
completed the basic training program appropriate to their positions. The
emblem is worn IMMEDIATELY BELOW AND TOUCHING THE EMBLEM OF OFFICE FOR WHICH IT
WAS EARNED. (ed. that is exactly why the "trained" strip goes under the
commissioner position patch and the arrowhead below the trained strip.)
Commissioners wear this emblem between the embloem of office and the Arrowhead
Honor. Boy Scout junior leaders who have completed troop junior leader
training, den chiefs who have completed den chief training conference, and
elected Explorers who have completed the post officer's seminar may wear the
Trained Leader emblem beneath thei badge of office. NOTE: The Trained Leader
emblem may be worn ONLY in connection with the emblem of office for which basic
training has been COMPLETED.
----Insignia Control - page 43.
(ed. I find absolutely no reference to OA advisor training, basic, etc. (HELP)
There is absolutely no mention above, BUT all positions that are entitled to
wear the trained patch are indeed listed, even when a boy is allowed to wear
it, a rather recent change within last few years.)
> 2. As a member of the District Committee I should wear that patch to
>Roundtable, as an ASM should wear that patch to troop meetings, and as OA
>advisor should wear that patch to chapter and lodge functions?
----correct: as a member at large of the District Committee you wear the
District Committee badge of position, however, since there have been so few
councils in this country who have actually run the Dist. Com. basic training
course (called Key Scout Training) you probably can not wear a trained strip
under this one.
as an Asst. Scoutmaster - you wear a shirt with that position, and the trained
strip having completed BS leader Scoutmasters' Fund. basic training.
as an OA advisor you wear the position badge of OA advisor -- I can not find any
criteria for training.
However--- you may wear any one of the above to all Scouting functions, you need
only to make your own decision. 3 shirts? or 1 shirt with the one position
you are primarilly registered in. In other words, your PAID position (the one
that the actual annual fee is paid for) is probably your ASM (making this your
primary position, and it should be, a leader for a unit SHOULD be primary for
numbers of reasons) -- it is NOT wrong to wear the ASM patch to the dist. mtg,
dist. actitivities, roundtables, etc.
(remember -- the PAID position or primary position is the ONLY one that national
pays attention to as far as mailings, info, inserts into your Scouting mag,
etc., I have always found it to my benefit to keep a commissioner position as
primary as I get copies from national that way of everything they mail.)
I personally feel the dist. com. position is the least important and means
almost nothing to most unit people, and if it were me and I only owned one
shirt I would chose the ASM.
> This all seems too complicated to me. Most Scouters in our district, if
> not council, seem to be of the understanding that the Trained patch indicates
> completion of Scoutmastership Fundamentals. Granted that the patch doesn't
> <specify> that, and apparently there used to be patches for that purpose,
> but if the National Office in its infinite (?) wisdom has decreed that a
> generic patch will serve all purposes, maybe they need to rethink that
--Nathan -- that is why National holds courses all over the country to try to
get the word to the volunteers. Most volunteers uniform by what they SEE nor
what is right. However, all insignia is copyrighted and must be worn by our
Insignia Control guide, or not worn at all.
The great thing about a list like this is we can help get the word out - you are
given the resources to back you up when you point it out to others.
> Perhaps it <really> ought to be YOU DON'T WEAR THE POSITION PATCH UNLESS
> YOU'RE TRAINED IN THE POSITION.
--Actually I agree with so many other volunteer leaders - I loved the MYLAR
edged position badges which were worn ONLY when basic training was complete.
It really looked sharp, and I have a complete set for troop and pack positions
in mylar - they are beautiful. National uniform committee just opened up the
trained leader strip to the boys a few years ago, so there is always hope of
(actually, when BSA first began an adult had to attend five years of training to
"qualify" to be allowed to be a leader, they did in England too, don't know if
that appreticeship still applies in England. However, I do have copies of all
of their basic training, and it is way more complete and intense than ours has
been for the past 20 years I have been involved with BSA.)
I just advanced the theory that we (the district) should require ALL new SM's,
>ASM's, and Unit Committee members
> to take Scoutmastership Fundamentals within a year of joining the troop.
--Chicago Area Council, as of 1/1/93, now requires the following:
All new units must have the following in order to be chartered:
1. The top unit leader (SM, CM, EA) MUST have completed basic training for that
position in that program.
2. No unit will be allowed to charter with LESS than 10 boys.
All rechartering units:
1. If the unit recharters by the last day of the month of it's charter, i.e.
12/31/93, it is NOT required to have a trained top unit leader NOR 10 boys.
2. If the unit recharters PAST the last day of the month of it's charter, the
new rules above apply, top unit leader MUST be trained, there MUST be 10 boys.
this above policy, being against the national joining requirements, has been
reported to national, region, and area, but to date, still holds.
--As a past training chairman (council level and many district levels) and as a
dist commissioner, I also advanced that --- the original council I began with
years ago had 15% trained leaders and now runs close to 90%. It DOES work.
New people should be approached, with "this is what is expected of you for this
position, and training most assuredly must be included." I have ALWAYS also
counted ALL adult leaders who complete training, not only the top unit leader.
Troop committee guidebook, no. 34505, 1991 printing -- an EXCELLENT resource for
troops -- for a change National has actually produced a book that is succint,
factual and not terribly wordy.
Here is what is stated, and I quote:
p. 66- TRAINING
All adult leaders should avial themselves of the avialable training
opportunities. Training can be done in your home or, if a new troop, at your
first committee meeting by a district or council representative. (ed.
district/council training team member, nor and never a pro although this book
makes it sound like the pros do the training, that is absolutely (per National)
p. 26 - Duties of the Troop Committee Chairman
....."See that troop leaders and committee members have training opportunites.
I am and have been many times, a committee chairman, and I always put in place
on my committee a volunteer who's responsibility it is to be sure that all
adults receive Fast Start immediately after joining our unit; maintain accurate
information on basic training courses in our district, and surrounding
districts, as well as council training courses, including supplemental (ed.
Roundtables IS supplemental training), thus this is the person who needs to
assure that our unit is represented at all monthly RTs also.
p. 12 -- Members of the DISTRICT COMMITTEE are volunteers like yourself. The
district trains adult volunteers, ...... that means the district has the
responsibility to insure that basic and supplemental and fast start training
for all programs happens. (ed. by the way are you all aware that 2 years ago
we finally got a fast start training for commissioners? )
> Everyone thought that was a pretty good idea but had no thoughts on how
> to implement it. (Remember that I am from a troop where the adults think
> that a) they don't need BSA training, and if they absolutely have to have
> it, b) they can do it for themselves.) (Also remember that I am a bad
> boy who took 6 years between sessions 1 and 2 of Scoutmastership
> Fundamentals....:)....which was partly because of health and partly because
> of laziness.)
-- you will NEVER convince the old timers that they need to be recycled so to
speak, in spite of so many changes in all of our programs over the past 10
years. "first class program" "new patrol" "two year Webelos program" "Tigers
in grade 1", etc.
-- as a 20 year tenured national credentialled trainer for BSA, let me assure
you that you do not need to worry about those who do not listen -- just
concentrate on the new leaders as they come in to all the programs. -- and
then your district can, as ours just did, declare that all basic training must
be retaken every 6 years. (an arbitrary figure, but statistically it should
> To recap: This all sounds too durn complicated for me.
- Hey -- we never promised that bringing boys values, purpose, and character
was going to be easy -- it IS easier to be a boy in our program, but we all
have to meet that 18th birthday and then we must take on the added
RESPONSIBILITY of training these young boys in values and standards, and
assisting them to become men of values and standards, men who will stand for
what they believe. --- no we never promised you a "rose garden" just the
ability to help maybe one more kid to survive, grow, live and learn! Stretch
those kids -- no one ever does that for them --- all kids take the easy road if
allowed --- even I remember that! from my ripe age ---
(sorry, feeling a bit ancient and unneeded today.)
Terry Howerton Sakima Group, Inc. SCOUTER Magazine Kansas City