Re: New Troop Standards
Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:36:11 CST
On Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:04:35 EST Mark Wilson x6386 said:
>> From: Bob <UCAS402%UNLVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
>> . . . So last week, after having
>> the DE discuss it with us, I got the Pack Committee to make a motion to
>> have the DE ask the Chartering Unit to charter a Troop.
>Why have the DE do this? And where was the COR during this discussion? I'm
>not trying to pick on you, there are others out there who could benefit as
>well. You have a direct channel to the chartering organization called the
>chartered organization representative (COR). You really need to make use of
>this person, especially when you intend to discuss asking to form another unit.
The COR showed up for maybe half an hour of this discussion. He
had no objection to letting us start one if we wanted and had
brought it up to the church's governing body as a point of information
before, as we'd discussed the possibility since last spring or summer.
Actually he encouraged *us* to start one.
>> For the first couple years Troop 29 will probably be run under the current
>> Pack Committee.
>I would suggest that the troop committee be made up of parents of boys in the
>troop and interested members of the chartered organization. The unit committee
Well if it's organized for our 2nd year Webelos and some of our cubs
who went to other troops but would be interested in a more local
troop came back, then our first year we may have 6-8 boys. To the best of
my knowledge there is no one from the CU who is interested in
helping, which is no surprise as no one from the CU belongs to
It was my judgement, and the DE's, that in this case starting it
under the purview of the Pack Committee would offer the best
hope of success.
Next year, we'll have about 15-20 possible Webelos ready for
the troop. It's my hope that as they join and parents become
involved the PC can disengage itself from administration.
>needs to act in the best interests of the unit, not juggle the best interests
>of two units with sometimes competing priorities. There may be some overlap.
>There often is between "brother units." You also need to keep in mind that
>the business of running a troop and running a pack are different. Trying to do
>both with one group will be a trying task at best.
>> We want to set up the new troop to work closely with us and to be
>> well integrated with the pack, . . .
>The troop and the pack should have a good working relationship. It should not
>integrated with the pack. Boy Scouting is not an extention of Cubbing. Cubbing
>is a part of a progression that leads to Boy Scouting. In the pack/troop
>relationship the pack provides boys prepared to become Scouts and the troop
>provides assistance to the pack in the form of Den Chiefs and a liason with the
>Webelos dens. This doesn't preclude occasional joint functions (pack and troop
>go together on a parade float for example).
I understand that historically, and in the corporate culture of
the BSA the cubs are kind of this add on whose purpose is to supply
scouts to the troops, thus your comment about "a progression that
leads to Boy Scouting". I just disagree that the cubs are
a subsidiary to a Troop. To me this is more of a marriage.
Each to become the best it can must work with the other to
make a total scouting experience.
The history of our unit is that there was a troop 29 that terminated
itself. We in the pack want the boys to not be lead so much into
Boy Scouts as to continue their scouting experience. So we in
the pack are creating this if we can. As a consequence we have
the vested interest in its success. In our case the chance of
a troop being started in the traditional way with the CU
organizing it appears to be about zero. In approximately ten
years since Troop 29 died I've not heard of any effort to
resusciate it, so I presume without the request of our Pack
Committee there would be none.
So you see, in our case the Cub Scouts are not an extension of the
Boy Scouts (that is a troop). We're not a troop seeking a way to
get more boys in but an active pack of about 70 cubs trying to
keep them in a scouting program.
The DE's presense was at my request to answer any questions.
The COR encouraged us to go ahead if we wanted. A motion
was made and accepted have the DE (and COR) ask the church
officially if they would charter a Troop. Essentially
I think the CU's possition is that as a community service
they'll let us do it but it's not something they're interested
in putting much effort in to start themselves.
>> It will also allow for support of supplies (tents
>> especially as we have a lot of equipment from the old troop)
>The pack owns nothing. Troops own nothing. Any equipment the pack or troop has
>technically belongs to the Chartered Organization. They can reallocate it as
>they see fit. I bring this up to maintain a specific frame of mind. We all too
>often forget that the Chartered Organization OWNS the unit. They, not the unit
>committee, were granted a license to use the Scouting program. Their Scouting
>units are an extention of their youth program, not autonomous entities. Bottom
>line - the assets could be made available to the troop with or without the
The dead Troop 29 had significant equipment, including a canoe.
It was noted at the meeting that the church owne this by me, but the
COR said the
church gave it to the pack. Now you and I know legally this
isn't the case but this may help frame in your mind the environment
>> In any case I'd like to set some standards, particular to our troop.
>This should be left to the troop committee, not the pack Cubmaster or
>> * Having a high adventure outing at least every other year.
>This is program. It is also a great place to point out the difference between
>Cubs and Boy Scouts. Troop program come from the boys. The PLC presents their
>plans and ideas to the Scoutmaster for approval. The Scoutmaster informs the
>committee of the plans so they can prepare logistical support as needed. It's
>actually a little more complicated than that. The point is, in Cubbing the
>Cubmaster with the committee determines the pack program. In Boy Scouts, the
>boys decide what they want to do with the advise and consent of the
>What the boys want may not fit in our nice little plans, but it is THEIR troop
>In closing, let me recommend that you (and any others interested in the troop
>program) attend the next available Scoutmastership Fundamentals course in your
>area. SMF is as essential for anyone who works with a troop as Cub Leader Basic
I believe this will be offered next October (last year the spring one wasn't
worth the effort for the attendence it got is my understanding).
I'll note here that we have a father of a Boy Scout, who is dissatisfied
with the current troop he's at who wants to help create our new troop.
I consider this divine providence as this guy sought us out without
knowing we're interested in doing it. He's known by our DE as the
person who more or less single handedly started a pack in a new
school district (which he's no longer sending his children to). The
DE was delighted and offered to coordinate with this guy too.
>Training is for those working with packs. You should also secure and read the
>SM Handbook and Troop Committee Guidebook as soon as possible.
>You should also talk to other Scoutmasters in the area to make sure that
>there really is room for another troop. DE's are notorious for starting units
>in areas that can't really support it, sometimes to the detriment of existing
>units. The Scoutmasters can also enlighten you on various aspects of troop
Yes I thought when I became CM in Feb 92, at least there are troops
in the area so we don't have to deal with that. Parents however
have changed my mind. Apparantly there's a lot of disappointment
in the troops locally or effort to get to ones some distance across
town. In short a lot of our cubs ended their scouting experience
as they left our doors, or shortly thereafter. Again this is against
my idea to get them on to become eagles. If that's my mission, then
I need a better, closer troop. Not having control of others I'm
trying to start one.
>operation as you get started. They might even give you a copy of their troop's
>by-laws to use as a guide.
I guess I need to research this by-law topic more. What is normally
in them? I mentioned high adventure outings as desireable. You say
this is "program". Now at my church I'm helping put toegether a
strategic plan. In it I expect we'll see something to the effect
that christian education is important and should be offered. Then
it's up the the committee I chair on education to implement it. It'd
think the by-laws could say something like high adventure is to be
offered every year, leaving its implementation up to the scouts.
My thought was that it'd be along the lines of the Quality Unit
certification; something to indicate what we consider a good troop
to be run like.
>Good luck. I hope something I've written helps. I also hope everything works
>out for you and your (soon) fledgling troop.
Thanks for your time and comments. This last nine months have been
pretty exciting and any help is useful.
>SM, Troop 565
>CC, Pack 565
>Eagle Class of '74
>"I used to be an antelope . . ."
Robert D. Losee BITNET: ucas402@unlvm
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