SIMON THOMPSON (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Tue Feb 17 13:53:42 1998
I may be a dimwit or something but what the heck are these about. Scouting should have nothing to do with careers, It should be open to all youths to help them have a better future through outdoor fun and sport as well as providing a structure by which they can expand their brains. What is a legal exploring group, and what are all these strange titles about. LFL's BSA etc.
Isn't it obvious people don't want ponces, poofs and pervs (e.g. Thos. Hamilton) looking after their kids, whats wrong with that? It should be up to parents not Civil Liberty wallahs.
Could someone also explain this sponsorship thing? what is it? what rights do cities have to stop a charity like scouting from working in its city?
I seriously doubt that the higher courts will force BSA to admit those
opposed to those of the movement.
Unfortunately if you were right I don't think that we would be in this
Here is the reprint of the Chicago Tribune article that points
specifically to governments (in this case the City) requiring groups to
adhere to their policies.
SETTLEMENT OF ACLU LAWSUIT PUTS CITY, BOY SCOUTS ON SEPARATE PATHS
By Terry Wilson Tribune Staff Writer
February 5, 1998
The City of Chicago and the Boy Scouts of America officially parted
company Wednesday when the city signed an agreement in federal court
stating it will not renew its charter agreements with the organization.
Prompted by a lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union, the
city, which had been a chartering entity for about 28 Explorer, Cub
Scout and Boy Scout groups, agreed to stop the arrangement before U.S.
District Judge Charles Kocoras.
"The city agreed to drop its sponsorship of all Scouting programs as
long as the Boy Scouts of America maintains policies that require a
religious element in programming and excludes members on the basis of
sexual orientation," said ACLU attorney Roger Leishman. "We're hopeful
that the Boy Scouts of America will change its policy and realize it
doesn't need to discriminate. If it continues, it cannot expect
The issue arose when Kevin Poloncarz, a University of Chicago law
student who is gay and agnostic, wanted to volunteer as an adult leader
of the city's Legal Explorer Post, which provided career-based
information to teens interested in studying law, Leishman said.
Poloncarz balked when he saw the registration form requiring he meet
leadership standards that included a declaration of religious principle
that discusses an "obligation to God," Leishman said.
A co-plaintiff, Rev. Eugene Winkler, was party to the lawsuit because he
believes the separation of church and state is hindered when the city
sponsors a group that endorses religion, Leishman said.
Lawyers from both sides reached an agreement and the city agreed to pay
$20,000 in court costs, Leishman said.
Neither party rushed the matter to court, a factor that allowed the
Scouting units to find new sponsorship elsewhere so they could continue
their programs, Leishman and city officials said.
"Most of the posts have moved to private sponsorship," said Rebecca
Fields of the Chicago Area Council of the Boy Scouts of America.
John J. Troiano
1986 National Explorer President
(I guess that will now take on a different meaning!)
>From: William H. Sills [SMTP:email@example.com]
>Sent: Monday, February 16, 1998 12:49 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list
>Subject: Re: NEWS FLASH
>The BSA is a moral movement. It is not an outdoor boys play club. I seriously
>doubt that the higher courts will force BSA to admit those espousing morals
>opposed to those of the movement. Sea Scouting remains the traditional
>that emanated from Robert Baden Powell's earliest camping by boat experiences
>with his elder brothers Warington and George. CAW was often run as so distant
>from BSA that most of the youth I have met knew nothing about being in
> The pendulum is swinging to the moral side even as lawyers and
>beaurocrats accommodate the amorality of the sixties. This division, albeit
>caused by the wrong reasons, will stand us in goo stead in the future.
> BSA had the correct answer. Selling out to the aberrated products of
>sick sixties would have been wrong!
> As Sea Scouts are fond of saying "Stay the moral course...".
>> In some states, accepting Homosexuals is not an option of the BSA. If the
>> courts interpret the law that way, the BSA can either allow homosexuals in
>> or not have Scouting. I suspect the BSA is fighting this more than we are.
>> I know several of the churches with large BSA associations are going to
>> scream and probably/possible withdraw their support based on where the BSA
>> is forced to go. Your anger and your fight should be with the
>> organizations and people forcing the BSA in this corner.
>> Yours in Scouting
>> Jim Moss
>> 12340 W. Alameda Pkwy., Lakewood, CO 80228-2841
>> Eagle Class of 69, Vigil, Denver Area Council
>> I have several concerns with this switch. First of all, With the switch
>> to Learning for Life, which is a school based program, will this allow
>> the Government to force a change of rules such as the religious
>> requirements, and the strong moral beliefs held by scouting. Will we be
>> forced to accept those with no religious beliefs? Will we be forced to
>> accept homosexuals? I think that if federal funds are in anyway
>> involved, that the moral and ethical strengths of Scouting will be lost
>> in a time when the youth of America need it most. I hope I am wrong.
>> What do you think?
>> John T. Yingling
>> Advisor Post 2151
>> Baltimore, Maryland
I'll try to respond to a few things that were discussed last night:
1) Everyone should know that the Boy Scouts of America and Learning
for Life are two separate corporations. By law, a corporation can sue
and be sued as an individual person. Now, I'm not going to comment on
any of the lawsuits that have been mentioned--I'm a political
consultant, not an attorney or a professional with the BSA. The matter
of Career, Law Enforcement, etc. being moved into another corporation
is an important factor in all of this--they're not just moving things
around to confuse us--they're doing it to make us (both Venturers and
LFL) more stable.
2) The title of "Exploring" IS going to the Career and Law Enforcement
posts. There is apparently no room for movement on this. Venturing is
the name that has been given to the BSA group (unless we come up with
3) Because Learning for Life is a separate corporation from the BSA, I
don't think that LFL members would be able to earn GOLD, Silver, or
Ranger. These programs are staying with Venturing.
4) A lot of people are suggesting that Venturers be called "Rovers".
Let me be clear that I do not have the authority to put out the call
for suggestions on a completely new program for youth in their 20's
(although, being that I am 22, I am rather interested in this
concept). I am simply looking for suggestions on a name, not a
program--at this point.
5) Someone mentioned that he was an EMS Explorer, but had very strong
ties to Scouting, an Eagle Scout, etc. I am an Eagle Scout, too, and I
know what a difficult decison this must be. If one wants to continue
EMS, Fire/Rescue, Law Enforcement, Search & Rescue, or any type of
career Exploring, one must go with Learning for Life. There is no
leeway on this. If one wants to remain close to Scouting (and keep OA
membership), then one would need to join an Outdoor, Religious, Arts &
Hobbies, or Sports post. And no, Emergency Medical Services cannot be
done in an Arts & Hobbies post! :)